Runtu wrote:Thanks, Rollo. I'm just wondering whether he was speaking out of "sour grapes" or if he was giving an accounting of what actually happened. I think the context of when and why it was written might help answer that question.
I wish I knew. After being ex'ed he did return to the Church in 1840 and died in full fellowship (in 1842 in Nauvoo), but I don't know when the above statement was written.
Yep. If he hadn't returned to the church, I wouldn't be here today.
Blixa wrote:If you remind me, I can try to see it when (and if) I get access to the archives later this summer.
You'll have to really remind me, though.
That could be a nice test of this new forthcomingness about history policy that I just read about in another thread. Keep us posted, please.
As far as the record goes, it sounds perfectly possible to me. The revelation has that ring of authenticity ... seems like they were all for the convenience of Joseph Smith when you get right down to it.
Runtu wrote:I posted this "you know where" and figured maybe someone here knows something about it.
I came across this last night and wondered if anyone knew anything about this alleged statement of facts from Frederick G. Williams. The citation is this: Statement of facts relative to J. Smith & myself. Microfilm of holograph. Frederick G. Williams collection, MS 782, fd. 2. Church Archives. Does anyone know the circumstances around this statement? When it was made and why?
Statement of facts relative to J. Smith & myself
From the time I first became acquainted with Jos Smith I frequently assisted him let him have the run of my farm in Kirtland two year for which I recd no compensation though he frequently promised me he had given me Several notes for oxon farming utinstials waggon <& ox - [-]>, for the run of the farm I never took any note ne[I]ther reced any thing for it frequently Let him have money of which I mad[e] no account recollect letting him have 10 dollars at one time when making the road up the hill, also 31 dollars to redeem Kirtland currency with about the time we received the revelation [-] Page 240 if I recollect right a revelation was received regarding every one of of [sic] what was then called the firm to give up all notes & demands that they had against each other Should be given up and all be equal which we the [Cause?] that I never got any thing for my farm
I commenced writing for Joseph Smith Jr. July 20th 1832 as may be seen by S. Rigdons permission dated as above from which time up to the [-] of the Hebrew School in Kirtland I was constantly in Said Smiths employ and boarded myself <from which he agreed to give me 60 dollar in a year>
I also Let him have 27 dollars when he went to Missouri with the camp I also bought a patent [-] Silver watch for which [-] agreed to pay $50. … Use of farm for two years, ox, wagon, etc.
From the time I first became acquainted with Joseph Smith Jr. Which was in the mo of August 1831, I frequently assisted him by letting him have money & other things, among which was the use of my Farm in Kirtland for two years for which I never took any note or Security I also furnished him with oxon chair Sled waggon and other things, not now recollected for which he gave me his note to the amount [of] several Hundred Dollars but about the time we received the Revelation under page 240 in the doctrine and covenants a revelation was received (but not writen) requiring a certain number amoung us (among which I was one) to [-] accounts & give up all notes & demands that they had against each other & all be equal which was done this included all that he was to give me for my farm & the obligation which I held against him &c. but he never gave me any obligation for my farm whatever
Rentu,
I have no reason to doubt that it's authentic. It probably dates to shortly after the return of Zion's Camp in June-July 1834. The sour grapes you mentioned was the dissolution of the United Firm in April 1834 (D&C 104). Lydon Cook book on the D&C quotes FGW's "Facts" as well as a document in N K Whitney Col. that lists everyone's debts as of 23 April 1834:
FGW & Co. $584.14
Joseph Smith $1151.31
OC $68.57
SR $777.98
FGW $485.67
Jn Johnson $567.68
Total $3635.35
It seems FGW was forgiven of a lot of debt. Considering FGW was excommunicated in 1839 and rebaptized in 1840, I think he got over it. And until there is a complete study of Joseph Smith's finances (I'm hoping this mammoth undertaking will be done by those working on the Joseph Smith papers), I wouldn't jump to conclusions that he was getting rich or using people. These were financially hard times, especially with the collapse of the US banking system in 1837. Everyone was in debt and a lot were being sued, not just Joseph Smith.
I do not want you to think that I am very righteous, for I am not. Joseph Smith (History of the Church 5:401)
I have no reason to doubt that it's authentic. It probably dates to shortly after the return of Zion's Camp in June-July 1834. The sour grapes you mentioned was the dissolution of the United Firm in April 1834 (D&C 104). Lydon Cook book on the D&C quotes FGW's "Facts" as well as a document in N K Whitney Col. that lists everyone's debts as of 23 April 1834:
FGW & Co. $584.14 Joseph Smith $1151.31 OC $68.57 SR $777.98 FGW $485.67 Jn Johnson $567.68 Total $3635.35
It seems FGW was forgiven of a lot of debt. Considering FGW was excommunicated in 1839 and rebaptized in 1840, I think he got over it. And until there is a complete study of Joseph Smith's finances (I'm hoping this mammoth undertaking will be done by those working on the Joseph Smith papers), I wouldn't jump to conclusions that he was getting rich or using people. These were financially hard times, especially with the collapse of the US banking system in 1837. Everyone was in debt and a lot were being sued, not just Joseph Smith.
Thanks very much, Dan. That's exactly what I was looking for. I specifically held back on any judgment because I had no idea of the context. That clarifies a lot.