Elder Stapley Letter To Gov. George Romney

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_Rollo Tomasi
_Emeritus
Posts: 4085
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:27 pm

Post by _Rollo Tomasi »

Sethbag wrote:So, was Harold B. Lee inspired by Jesus Christ to lobby the other members of the Quorum of the Twelve not to rescind the ban? If not, and that was just his opinion as a fallible human, is there any good reason why the Discernment powers of the other members through the Holy Spirit and the priesthood they hold as special witnesses of Jesus Christ couldn't recognize this and support rescinding the ban anyway? Or did Jesus Christ simply not think "the time was right" for the ban to be rescinded for another, oh, nine years?

Does anyone else see the hand and workings of human beings here, and not the working of any kind of God?

Harold B. Lee had his own 'Stapley-like' moments:

BYU President Ernest L. Wilkinson wrote in his journal that in 1960 Harold B. Lee said to him, “If a granddaughter of mine should ever go to the BYU and become engaged to a colored boy there, I would hold you responsible.” (Greg Prince, David O. McKay and the Rise of Modern Mormonism, p. 64). Lee made a similar complaint to Wilkinson in March 1965, when he “protested vigorously over our having given a scholarship at the B.Y.U. to a negro student from Africa.” (Quinn, Extensions of Power, p. 852).
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."

-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)
_Sethbag
_Emeritus
Posts: 6855
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:52 am

Post by _Sethbag »

Rollo Tomasi wrote:
Sethbag wrote:So, was Harold B. Lee inspired by Jesus Christ to lobby the other members of the Quorum of the Twelve not to rescind the ban? If not, and that was just his opinion as a fallible human, is there any good reason why the Discernment powers of the other members through the Holy Spirit and the priesthood they hold as special witnesses of Jesus Christ couldn't recognize this and support rescinding the ban anyway? Or did Jesus Christ simply not think "the time was right" for the ban to be rescinded for another, oh, nine years?

Does anyone else see the hand and workings of human beings here, and not the working of any kind of God?

Harold B. Lee had his own 'Stapley-like' moments:

BYU President Ernest L. Wilkinson wrote in his journal that in 1960 Harold B. Lee said to him, “If a granddaughter of mine should ever go to the BYU and become engaged to a colored boy there, I would hold you responsible.” (Greg Prince, David O. McKay and the Rise of Modern Mormonism, p. 64). Lee made a similar complaint to Wilkinson in March 1965, when he “protested vigorously over our having given a scholarship at the B.Y.U. to a negro student from Africa.” (Quinn, Extensions of Power, p. 852).

Yup, every bit the Special Witness of Jesus Christ that we'd always imagined him to be.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
_Coggins7
_Emeritus
Posts: 3679
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:25 am

Post by _Coggins7 »

About a year ago I was in sacrament meeting and a member of the High Council gave a talk to us that I thought was the most anecdotal, personalized, and useless counsel I had ever received. It was basically a list of things that had worked for him in life and therefore were part of the Gospel and failing in them was an affront to God despite all scriptural evidence to the contrary. It did work for him but I firmly believe to this day it wouldn't work for me and most of the people in the ward. Discussing it later with other ward members we all agreed there was no Spirit there.


I've had my share of experiences such as this myself. The reason I've had them is because the entire membership of the Church, including the leaders, are composed of human beings. According to most of the critics here, however, some human beings are more, or less, human that others.

The goal is always moved, the bar always raised, the standards always double, for the Latter Day Saint.

Keep something in mind. Elder Stapeley was deeply influenced by the age and cultural norms with which he was raised. Note: although we have shed the mantle of racism and similar prejudices as a society, we have also saddled ourselves with an entire edifice of new ones, which normally fall under the rubric of "Leftism" and "political correctness".

Black people, in just my life time, have gone from objects of bigotry and scorn, to objects of sympathy, to the noble savages (a dubious distinction they share with Amerindians and now, Third World Muslims) of an entire cultural and political demographic group.

Frankly, the prejudices against Mormons that are a regular feature of this forum and others of similar ilk have little substantive differences from the old bigotries against Black people. Nor are the superstitions and prejudices of positivism, reductionism, atheism, metaphysical materialism, and the shabby political and social nostrums of much of our modern political and media culture any better than the old bigotries against Blacks, woman, Asians, Irish, Italians, Catholics, or anyone or anything else.

Can a culture that despises and kills tens of millions of its own unborn children for reasons of personal convenience, or allows tens of millions more children in Third World countries die of malaria when such is completely preventable, so that they can strut before their peers as socially conscious, morally superior sophisticates, "concerned" about "the environment" really be all that far ahead of a mind like that of Stapley'?

Should a culture of divorce and family dissolution in which one of every two marriages will eventually end in divorce,, with a 30% unwed pregnancy rate among whites, and upwards of 70% among blacks, worry overmuch about the personal racially biased opinions of a single individual forty years ago who had no influence in and of himself on Church doctrine and who was, in his own way, as much a product of the best and worst of his age as we are of ours?

Perhaps we should concentrate more on the prejudices, bigotries, myths, and narrow shibboleths of our own age and less on the easy targets of the past.
The face of sin today often wears the mask of tolerance.


- Thomas S. Monson
Post Reply