Miracles, are they fundamental, or 'fun'?

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_Roger Morrison
_Emeritus
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Post by _Roger Morrison »

Hi Richard, glad you enjoyed such a nice "folksy vacation," and with those luminaries as well, WOW! You said:

You clearly know science better than Newton, Faraday and Maxwell.


Will you please explain? To be corrected, when wrong, is my life's pursuit. Also, i'm not sure how to take:

People bodily resurrect all the time. Yea, right.


What am i to make of that bit of sarcasim--as i read it???

Warm regards, Roger
_richardMdBorn
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Post by _richardMdBorn »

Roger Morrison wrote:Hi Richard, glad you enjoyed such a nice "folksy vacation," and with those luminaries as well, WOW! You said:

You clearly know science better than Newton, Faraday and Maxwell.


Will you please explain? To be corrected, when wrong, is my life's pursuit.
That is an excellent attitude. Newton, while leaning towards Arianism, was an opponent of atheism.
When the young Cambridge-educated clergyman Richard Bentley was called upon in 1692 to deliver the first Boyle Lectures for the defence of Christianity against infidelity, he buttressed his natural theological argument for the existence of God with support from Newton’s Principia. While revising his lectures for the press, he wrote the author of the Principia to determine if his deployment of its physics would meet the approval of the great man himself. In his first reply to Bentley Newton confirmed: “When I wrote my treatise about our Systeme I had an eye upon such Principles as might work wth considering men for the beleife of a Deity & nothing can rejoyce me more then to find it usefull for that purpose.” Newton went on and asserted that “ye diurnal rotations of ye Sun & Planets as they could hardly arise from any cause purely mechanical . . . they seem to make up that harmony in ye systeme wch . . . was the effect of choice rather than of chance.”
www.isaac-newton.org/science.doc

And though Maxwell was no theological liberal but accepted the revelation of God through Jesus Christ, he is pointing to a different perfection in creation, one which he emphasizes cannot be attributed to evolutionary adaptation. It is an intriguing thought, not that Maxwell was strictly correct that atoms are immutable, but his approach is more to appreciate the ordered uniformity rather than the peculiarity and complexity of nature, as signs of the creator.
These great scientists believed that the results of science did not exclude belief in religion including miracles. Now maybe they were wrong. But sometimes scientists follow theories in the hope that they will exclude the possibility of creation. The steady state is an example in my opinion. Some applications of string theory are another example.
Also, I'm not sure how to take:
People bodily resurrect all the time. Yea, right.


What am I to make of that bit of sarcasim--as I read it???
Yes, it was sarcasm.

Regards,.
Richard
_Roger Morrison
_Emeritus
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Post by _Roger Morrison »

Hi Richard, thanks for the information re Newton being a believing scientist. His, or anyone elses believe/disbelief i doubt effects universal laws. They are what they are. To be discovered, and applied to the betterment/detriment of society. Do you agree? Much as your Father did to enrich us with the GPS. If i've understood you correctly...

It appears that you misunderstood my statement, which was:

I respectfully suggest ... THE principle upon which all science is dependent (is): cause & effect. One that many religious types have yet to learn: there are no miracles; there is no magic. Including blood-atonement, redemption and an after-life--as theologians of most religions imagine and teach--as reward or punishment for sinning/being-stupid or doing-good/being-smart.

We receive the fruits of our labour/efforts here...now or never. Soooo, procrastinate not your moment of service, goodness, wisdom or happiness...

(Slightly altered for clarity.)

Reading the theological bio of Newton, while it informs, it does not change my conclusions expressed above: "God" is a "God" of order and justice. Not one of whimsy and/or favour. This "order" and consistancy we are ALL, "saint-or-sinner" dependent upon. Do you not agree? Warm regards, Roger
_richardMdBorn
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Post by _richardMdBorn »

Roger God is a "God" of order and justice.

Richard I agree

Roger Not one of whimsy and/or favour.

Richard I agree that he is not one of whimsy. The favor issue is more complicated. The sun rises on the just and the unjust. On the other hand, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy."

Roger This "order" and consistancy we are ALL, "saint-or-sinner" dependent upon. Do you not agree?

Richard I agree
_Roger Morrison
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Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:13 am

Post by _Roger Morrison »

Richard, nice to see we have so much common ground... however you said:

I agree that he is not one of whimsy. The favor issue is more complicated. The sun rises on the just and the unjust. On the other hand, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy."



Is that quote taken from the Old Testament or the New Testament? (if it matters???) As it is it's in 1st-person, which brings it into question by any realistic student of literalism vs figurative/metaphorical/alagorical interpretation of "God's" word. Which is, we both know, in reality man's written word.

As you, and they, present it is in justification of whatever use it might put to: Carrot or stick... As i see it, it is inconsistant with being a "God" of "order" ... Warm regards, Roger
_richardMdBorn
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Post by _richardMdBorn »

Roger Morrison wrote:Richard, nice to see we have so much common ground... however you said:

I agree that he is not one of whimsy. The favor issue is more complicated. The sun rises on the just and the unjust. On the other hand, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy."



Is that quote taken from the Old Testament or the New Testament? (if it matters???) As it is it's in 1st-person, which brings it into question by any realistic student of literalism vs figurative/metaphorical/alagorical interpretation of "God's" word. Which is, we both know, in reality man's written word.

As you, and they, present it is in justification of whatever use it might put to: Carrot or stick... As I see it, it is inconsistant with being a "God" of "order" ... Warm regards, Roger
The first quote is

So that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. Mat 5:45

The second quote is from several passages:

15For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION."

16So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.

Rom 9

Verse 15 is a quote from the Ex 33:19

Richard
_Roger Morrison
_Emeritus
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Post by _Roger Morrison »

Thanks Rich, i knew whereof the rain-&-sun. (Sermon On The Mount :-) I meant the "quote" in quotation marks. As expected, it originated in the Old Testament that 'quotes' "God", supposedly verbatim... As i indicated, that is a literalist idea that i do not subscribe to...

However, considering the "God-of-mercy" profession by many, i am not surprised by those words. OTOH, i do not think they suggest "favour". They tend to describe discernment used by all wise beings. Not painting with a broad brush, but having capacity to 'judge' the severity of each action and administering accordingly... Not sure where we can go with this, where we haven't been before?? :-) Warm regards, Roger
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