Runtu wrote:I try not to be too cynical in these cases, but I've had personal experience tell me that the church really is that cynical itself in using such "charitable" occasions to bring attention to itself.
Back when I worked for the church, our intern (whom I knew from graduate school) came into my office in tears because of something she was asked to edit. It was an internal report on a proposed formal collaboration between the LDS church and Catholic Relief in Australia in providing charitable assistance and disaster recovery services. Nowhere in the report did it say that the agreement was intended to better serve people. On the contrary, the rationale behind the agreement was that the church had an image problem in Australia, and associating themselve with a respected "mainstream" organization like Catholic Relief would help to improve the church's image. Our intern said she was having difficulty editing this document because it seemed so contrary to what she had always been taught about service and charity.
And of course, when we went to Louisiana and East Texas to clean up after the hurricanes, the focus was always on making the church a visible and positive presence. It was never about service; it was a "missionary opportunity."
That has been my experience as well. I've related these at different times here. I served on the board of an LDS-based development NGO working in Peru and Bolivia, and I've met with persons in LDS regional offices abroad to discuss development issues. In all cases there was a focus on using good works as a means to advance the interests of the Church, increase activity, increase temple attendance, etc.
I do not mean to say that this is necessarily generally true of LDS members or leaders. There are, I am sure, many altruistically motivated who help without an ulterior motive. But, I am saying that I've noticed a definite tendency among LDS members to intermingle good works with ulterior motives to strenghten or promote the Church or to tie people closer to it.
God . . . "who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, . . . and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him ..."
guy sajer wrote: That has been my experience as well. I've related these at different times here. I served on the board of an LDS-based development NGO working in Peru and Bolivia, and I've met with persons in LDS regional offices abroad to discuss development issues. In all cases there was a focus on using good works as a means to advance the interests of the Church, increase activity, increase temple attendance, etc.
I do not mean to say that this is necessarily generally true of LDS members or leaders. There are, I am sure, many altruistically motivated who help without an ulterior motive. But, I am saying that I've noticed a definite tendency among LDS members to intermingle good works with ulterior motives to strenghten or promote the Church or to tie people closer to it.
I always figured that if you did things for the right reasons, then good things would follow. Apparently, some of the suits at the COB don't agree.
Runtu wrote:I try not to be too cynical in these cases, but I've had personal experience tell me that the church really is that cynical itself in using such "charitable" occasions to bring attention to itself.
Back when I worked for the church, our intern (whom I knew from graduate school) came into my office in tears because of something she was asked to edit. It was an internal report on a proposed formal collaboration between the LDS church and Catholic Relief in Australia in providing charitable assistance and disaster recovery services. Nowhere in the report did it say that the agreement was intended to better serve people. On the contrary, the rationale behind the agreement was that the church had an image problem in Australia, and associating themselve with a respected "mainstream" organization like Catholic Relief would help to improve the church's image. Our intern said she was having difficulty editing this document because it seemed so contrary to what she had always been taught about service and charity.
And of course, when we went to Louisiana and East Texas to clean up after the hurricanes, the focus was always on making the church a visible and positive presence. It was never about service; it was a "missionary opportunity."
Runtu wrote:I try not to be too cynical in these cases, but I've had personal experience tell me that the church really is that cynical itself in using such "charitable" occasions to bring attention to itself.
Back when I worked for the church, our intern (whom I knew from graduate school) came into my office in tears because of something she was asked to edit. It was an internal report on a proposed formal collaboration between the LDS church and Catholic Relief in Australia in providing charitable assistance and disaster recovery services. Nowhere in the report did it say that the agreement was intended to better serve people. On the contrary, the rationale behind the agreement was that the church had an image problem in Australia, and associating themselve with a respected "mainstream" organization like Catholic Relief would help to improve the church's image. Our intern said she was having difficulty editing this document because it seemed so contrary to what she had always been taught about service and charity.
And of course, when we went to Louisiana and East Texas to clean up after the hurricanes, the focus was always on making the church a visible and positive presence. It was never about service; it was a "missionary opportunity."
NEVER about service? Ever? Come on Runtu.
You know I changed my mind a bit. I still think it is about service as well. But image and missionary work is at the top of the list too. I recall being in a meeting once where the stake asked each ward to do two community service projects over the next year. The projects were to be fairly substantial and involve the ward members and also be something of benefit to the community. I was thinking as the fellow gave the outline, a recent returned MP by the way, that this was a great idea, and how nice to get more involved in our local community and give back. But then the guy presenting said something like"Now we want you to do this and do it well so it can be a great missionary opportunity because that is why we want you to do it" What the WHAT I thought. After that I did not want to do it at all. I though why the hell can't we just do it to do it. And just to be nice and community members. Most the members of the community don't want to be Mormons! Sheesh!@!!
Jason Bourne wrote: NEVER about service? Ever? Come on Runtu.
I was talking about those 3 trips to do hurricane cleanup, and I'm dead serious. Never did they say anything about service. It was always about missionary opportunities. We were told over and over how much good we could do in bringing the church out of obscurity in the south.
Like I said, I know that sounds cynical, and I am quite sure that most church members are happy to give service without regard to the public image effect. I know I was and thousands of other volunteers there were. But the institutional church was interested in PR.
Jason Bourne wrote: NEVER about service? Ever? Come on Runtu.
I was talking about those 3 trips to do hurricane cleanup, and I'm dead serious. Never did they say anything about service. It was always about missionary opportunities. We were told over and over how much good we could do in bringing the church out of obscurity in the south.
Like I said, I know that sounds cynical, and I am quite sure that most church members are happy to give service without regard to the public image effect. I know I was and thousands of other volunteers there were. But the institutional church was interested in PR.
Agreed. They act on self service, not selfless service.
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning