FAIR Address Concerns of the Jewish Nation

[_Gadianton]

http://www.fairblog.org/

FAIR has a new post up on their blog by Steve Danderson taking on Jewish aversion to baptisms for the dead. Ya'll ought to check it out. As one might expect coming from FAIR, they take on one of the most politically sensitive issues for the Church with international visibility and leave it to their least experienced statesmen to handle. If FAIR had to worry about a large non-LDS readership, I'd encourage them to take it down. Since FAIR is however, directed toward budding junior-tier Mopologists, I'm sure the article sastisfies FAIR's objectives just fine.

Painfully, the first mistake of the article happens before the very first sentence. So here you have FAIR out to address concerns of the Jewish nation regarding issues relating to the Holocaust, and the article is principally filed under the category of "Anti-Mormonism". Strike One!

Then, after promptly filing away the Jewish nation (and Catholic Church) as the latest group anti-Mormon naysayers, Danderson reveals the depth at which FAIR diliberates over these difficult issues,

From the links above, I gather that Jewish groups believe that our baptising for the dead is a backdoor way of erasing the Jewishness of Holocaust victims

So, here's a couple links on the web, I kinda read them and I think this is what they're saying and I think it's really dumb because...

Strike two!

Ardith Parshall gets credit for the observation though,

It might be enlightening for you to speak quietly and off the record with two or three Jews who could explain to you why their peculiar history makes them sensitive to all this."

Yes, I agree. At minimum, before giving the thumbs down to the Jewish nation, speak with two or three Jews about the matter first, make sure before you begin firing rounds of jr. tier Mopologia on this one that you really do know what you're talking about.

Fortunately, baptism for the dead does NOT make them non-Jews, nor does this force them to deny their Jewishness. To the contrary, we believe that personal agency is sacrosanct [See D&C 101:78; Moses 4:3; 7:32]. Indeed, since we Latter-day Saints claim to be Israelites,

Indeed, if the concern here is erasing Jewish identity, there is no better way to address that fear than to announce that this odd little splinter group from the Protestant Christian movement a couple hundred years back constitutes the true blood of Israel. It might help to put those baptisms in some context, explain how Mormon doctrine was given to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden and the Torah leaves this out due to evil scribes who perverted the scriptures, removing the plain and precious Christian/Mormon truths. Explain how the Children if Israel apostasized over and over again from Gospel teahings leaving them with the lesser Law of Moses. Explain how you Mormons are of the Royal House of Epharaim, the superior tribe of Israel, and that if they are lucky, they, along with the other minor tribes can be restored back to Mormonism and have their scriptures and culture properly integrated with Mormonsism as the true Christianity.

Strike three!

As for the [Insert favourite epithet here.] that led Nazi Germany, as Wilford Woodruff put it about other persons who allowed the attempted genocide of another people, the Church will do their baptisms when “their cause is just.” That, I suspect, will come LONG after the Cubs win the World Series–in a four-game sweep. ;) (winky smiley face)

How many times has Hitler's work been done? But wow, you have to appreciate the way this guy knows how to speak to the Jewish nation or an international audience on a sensitive topic. Yeah, the Cubs are gonna win the world series before that happens! Har Har Har! Go CUBS!

Clearly, Jews are not dealing with the likes of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who wants to wipe Israel–and Jews–off the map, and denies that the Holocaust even happened. Rather, the LDS wish to remember the Jews as worthy people of the Most High, and not as vermin to be exterminated!

Christ almighty, what a way to put it..

Leaving all this aside, let us suppose, for a moment, that we’re wrong in our authority claims. What effect would our baptising a Jew, a Catholic, or any other dead person in any religion–or no religion at all?

Again, assuming that everyone around the globe like him grew up watching baseball, having FHE, and gobbling down fry sauce-drenched pototatoe stuffs, it will not occur to him that by and large, the rest of the world has no concept or belief in the uniquely Mormon culture that surrounds the "authority claim". Why should the Jews consider the pros and cons of baptism for the dead based on Steve Danderson's imagined pet criteria? shouldn't he address their concerns, not what he thinks their concerns should be?

I do like this one though, given all the fuss Mormons have made over the sacrilege of doing "apostate" ordinances with no authority. Yes Steve, if you're doing baptisms with no authority, God is really not happy about that, he takes apostasy seriously. How many times have Mormons complained about infant baptism -- hey, what does it hurt huh?

[_karl61]

I think the issue may be that those in the church are never encouraged to get another view of something from sources outside of Mormonism. "what, then, is the problem" the writer asks?

maybe this -

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view. ... 8&letter=N

[_gramps]

The Fair guy wrote:

But what if we’re right–and our baptisms have saving effect–provided their beneficiaries accept them? Are we not doing the dead a favour by ensuring that they will be able to take their rightful place in Heaven with the Most High?

Quite condescending. Haven't the Jewish people already made it quite clear they don't want the Mormon favour.

Still, I also don't get this. Don't Mormons teach that the righteous will be doing baptisms for the dead during the millenium? If they were truly concerned for the feelings of the Jewish people, couldn't they just wait until then to 'do them a favour?'

Because they don't wait, their rationalization for 'doing them a favour' now feels a bit cold and heartless.

[_karl61]

I think they should shelve the work for the dead until the sun burns out.

And they should keep the kids out of that font - if adults want to do it then let them but don't play mind games with kids saying they are helping dead people get to heaven by being involved with that ritual.

[_DaniteDan]

it seems the Church is very interested in a person's past or people that have passed.

[_Polygamy-Porter]

I think they should shelve the work for the dead until the sun burns out.

And they should keep the kids out of that font - if adults want to do it then let them but don't play mind games with kids saying they are helping dead people get to heaven by being involved with that ritual.

All of the youth programs, like necrobaptisms, are for one purpose only.

Member retention from youth to adulthood. The financial future of LDS Inc depends on it.

This was the primary reason for the seminary program.

This is why exmormon missionary efforts like mine are so important.

Starve the beast by removing members at all levels and ages possible.

Getting an adult couple and their 3-6 kids is a very measurable financial loss to LDS Inc.
Supposing average tithing of $5k/year, over two generations this amounts to
nearly one million dollars. All from a single defector.

Times that by say 10,000 defectors per year. That could mean a future financial loss of 10 billion dollars over two generations. PER YEAR of 10K defectors.

No wonder Holland was visibly pissed off.

I never served a mission, but am proud to say that through my sharing of gospel truths, I am directly responsible for 30 defectors. If those 30 get 30 out, and so on and so forth.. imagine the loss to LDS Inc!

[_Nightlion]

http://www.fairblog.org/

FAIR has a new post up on their blog by Steve Danderson taking on Jewish aversion to baptisms for the dead.

In an effort to raise myself higher than a cheeseball I deigned read you dressing down of Danderson's thread on Jewish sensibilities. This sort of foil and appel does have its moments as well demonstrated here.

Shall I run afoul of acceptable thought to bring up the fact that LDS have no business harvesting the entirety of humanity for names to keep themselves busy blaspheming the Most High with the utmost efficiency. If LDS ordinances for the dead were limited to the number of those "worthy" to enter the House of the Lord to do the work, only a few thousand names could have been possible so far.

That is the Zion take on it. I realize that in a world gone mad that making sacred work a franchised commodity was irresistible.
You would have to give the tithing to the poor otherwise.
How better to certify righteousness in hypocrisy, I understand.

[_harmony]

You would have to give the tithing to the poor otherwise.
How better to certify righteousness in hypocrisy, I understand.

And we can't have that!

[_Dr. Shades]

Rather, the LDS wish to remember the Jews as worthy people of the Most High, and not as vermin to be exterminated!

Christ almighty, what a way to put it.

Indeed. LOL!

Gadianton, that has to be one of the most unintentionally funny things I've read in a LONG time.

I'd really, REALLY like to read a Jewish person's reaction to that essay.