As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_Themis
_Emeritus
Posts: 13426
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:43 pm

Re: As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.

Post by _Themis »

stemelbow wrote:
I know the whole formula. I'm not being deceptive here. it is up to the individual to decide if his/her lie is something that he needs to apologize to others for. The restitution may not necessarily require an apology on his part, as he personally deems it. But even if it did, he very well could have made th emistake to not offer the apology. I'd be fine with that too. That'd be between he and God. Not you, me, he, God and every one else here.


This is not what the church teaches. One is to seek restitution if it is possible. It's not up the the individual to decide if they want to or not.
42
_stemelbow
_Emeritus
Posts: 5872
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:40 pm

Re: As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.

Post by _stemelbow »

Themis wrote:This is not what the church teaches. One is to seek restitution if it is possible. It's not up the the individual to decide if they want to or not.


Come on, Themis. Your being obtuse, pep pep. I'm just saying.

Anyway, it certainly is up to the individual to determine if restitution in individual cases is accomplished through apologizin' to others. Perhaps Hinckley himself felt that restitution did not require him to publically apologize. And on that, he could have been wrong anyway. Why are we harping on this now? Let us let it go. I get your point. I don't know if you get mine, but I've expressed mine. time to give it up. We've impassed.
Love ya tons,
Stem


I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
_harmony
_Emeritus
Posts: 18195
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:35 am

Re: As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.

Post by _harmony »

zeezrom wrote:Hi Harmony,

Have you ever considered joining a church where women and men (old and young) hold positions of authority? It seems you would be pretty happy there. Maybe since you have been so accommodating for DH, he could do the same for you?

Just curious.

Zee.


et tu, zee?

I'm hoping to see a change in LDS authority patterns, Zee. Probably a vain hope, but still...
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_zeezrom
_Emeritus
Posts: 11938
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:57 pm

Re: As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.

Post by _zeezrom »

harmony wrote:I'm hoping to see a change in LDS authority patterns, Zee. Probably a vain hope, but still...

Stranger things have happened.... But why spend the rest of our life hoping for something to change that very likely will not - especially if it irks us? Next time you're in SLC, call me up and we can head over to the COB together and ask to talk with the top guys about this. Give them a piece of our mind.

We could ask, "Mr. Monson, let's do an experiment. Give us one single ward to install a female bishopric and see how things go after a year." We can report back after a year. No harm no foul.
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)

The Holy Sacrament.
_Dad of a Mormon
_Emeritus
Posts: 380
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:28 am

Re: As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.

Post by _Dad of a Mormon »

AtticusFinch wrote:Mormons taught God was once a sinful man...


Did they say "sinful" specifically? I haven't seen that.
_Dwight Frye
_Emeritus
Posts: 666
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.

Post by _Dwight Frye »

Dad of a Mormon wrote:
AtticusFinch wrote:Mormons taught God was once a sinful man...


Did they say "sinful" specifically? I haven't seen that.

I don't think it's been taught, but that hasn't stopped some Mormons from believing it anyway: God Never Sinned - Do Mormons Agree?
"Christian anti-Mormons are no different than that wonderful old man down the street who turns out to be a child molester." - Obiwan, nutjob Mormon apologist - Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:25 pm
_Themis
_Emeritus
Posts: 13426
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:43 pm

Re: As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.

Post by _Themis »

stemelbow wrote:
Anyway, it certainly is up to the individual to determine if restitution in individual cases is accomplished through apologizin' to others. Perhaps Hinckley himself felt that restitution did not require him to publically apologize. And on that, he could have been wrong anyway. Why are we harping on this now? Let us let it go. I get your point. I don't know if you get mine, but I've expressed mine. time to give it up. We've impassed.


No, you clearly do not understand what the church teaches on this issue. I have already shown you on the church website what entails restitution as part of the repentance process. If one lies, in order to make full restitution, one would need to admit to the lie to those they lied to. You can call it an apology since feeling sorry about it is also a necessity. I see no where the option of not making restitution if it is possible. I am not sure how this can be that hard to understand, and I think you are just doing the apologetic thing to protect him as much as possible. This is why I think I am being more honest here.
42
_AtticusFinch
_Emeritus
Posts: 392
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:48 am

Re: As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.

Post by _AtticusFinch »

Dad of a Mormon wrote:
AtticusFinch wrote:Mormons taught God was once a sinful man...


Did they say "sinful" specifically? I haven't seen that.



geez...really?

ok....it sais "AS MAN IS"

it also did not specifically say man has 2 legs. Can we assume the man referred to "Man" has 2 legs? It also did not specifically say that "Man" had arms. Can we assume that "As Man Is" has 2 arms?

It said AS MAN IS. It did not not limit what man is.....it did not exclude any attributes of man. That would include sin. Further, Mormons are taught that they can also becomes gods, as Mormons are sinners, correct? Yet they can become God.

Please.....do not use silly arguments.
“What really goes on in the minds of Church leadership who know of the the truth. It would devastate the Church if a top leader were to announce the facts.” Thomas Ferguson, Mormon archaeologist
_stemelbow
_Emeritus
Posts: 5872
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:40 pm

Re: As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.

Post by _stemelbow »

Themis wrote:No, you clearly do not understand what the church teaches on this issue. I have already shown you on the church website what entails restitution as part of the repentance process. If one lies, in order to make full restitution, one would need to admit to the lie to those they lied to. You can call it an apology since feeling sorry about it is also a necessity. I see no where the option of not making restitution if it is possible. I am not sure how this can be that hard to understand, and I think you are just doing the apologetic thing to protect him as much as possible. This is why I think I am being more honest here.


Okay, Themis. You're better than me. Whatever. I'm not trying to be deceptive here. I truly see the whole process of repentence as personal, and the formulated steps, though important, are between God and the sinner for repentance to be reached. I do not hold to the idea that each and every soul must show that they've accomplished the steps to others, because I feel it best to let them determine how to handle the steps.

On top of that, I have honestly suggested that even if Hinckley failed to accomplish the steps in repentence for this particular lie, then its between he and God, and not between you, me, he and God. Thus, I drop it, in the spirit of forgiveness and positivity. Yet you hold on to it even going so far as to condemn him for not repenting for whatever reason.
Love ya tons,
Stem


I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
_Jason Bourne
_Emeritus
Posts: 9207
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:00 pm

Re: As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Obiwan wrote:President Hinkley didn't lie, and I should know having actively attended the Church in over 20 different wards and areas for some 32 years.

The only thing that is "emphasized" in the Church is the part of the couplet that "we can become like our Father". The church hasn't at all been teaching and emphasizing that the Father was once a man like us. Has the quote been a quote that has been taught and repeated, yes, and is it even believed by most, yes, but the last part of that quote is not official doctrine.

That was why President Hinckley answered the way he did.

Also, CFR that President Hinckley ever taught that "God was once a man like us".
You can find him teaching the first part of the couplet, but as far as I know certainly not the last. Why? Cause it's not official doctrine. LDS leaders haven't touched the last part of the couplet for years. For the last 30 years the Church has been trying hard to only teach what is actual "Doctrine" of the Church. Not every word or idea ever taught or spoken is doctrine, and it never has been.

And in case you don't know what makes doctrine of the Church. It's FOUR THINGS.

Scripture, Prophets, Holy Ghost, & Common Consent.
ALL must agree and be cohesive to be doctrine.


Oh boy the God was once a man is not dcotrine crap once again. Yes crap. It was only taught over the pulpit and in LDS manuals for about 170 years or so. But suddenly we want to down play it cause it seem weird or something.

Have apologists become woosies? We used to be proud of the teachings we had that set us apart.
Post Reply