Status of MormonThink events

[_Dianne Ormond]

[I am posting this at the request of MormonThinker.]

Status on MormonThink events, by MormonThinker

First, I am not speaking for all MT editors in this post. Other editors also have access to this account and may edit this post as needed.

Many are asking what is happening. Over the course of the 8 years MormonThink.com has been an online presence, there have been various levels of pressure exerted by LDS leaders on active, semi-active and less active members who contribute and edit articles posted on MT.

One example happened earlier this year when the past chief editor who'd remained completely anonymous due to still-attending with TBM family and close friends, received significant pressure from local ward & stake leaders to remove MT content or take the site down entirely.

This editor initially discussed MT content with his leaders, about our goal of promoting true church history over commonly-held beliefs and even how he was involved. He was willing to work with his stake president’s objections and he convinced the MT editorial board to take down the temple section as it greatly bothered some members. He also continued asking his stake president what was incorrect with the site. He offered to change it but his leader would never answer specifics, just labeling the site as ‘anti-Mormon’, anti-Joseph Smith and anti-church leadership. Ultimately, he decided to give up his editing duties to appease the church and turn them over to me, the current managing editor.

After this, however, with the temple material still unpublished they called him to disciplinary council for heresy, or as they call it these days ‘conduct unbecoming a member of the church’. Seeing the futility of attending such a pre-determined event, as the Stake President refused to discuss the material on the site and only wanted to focus on his involvement which he already determined was unacceptable, he quietly resigned. It is still a very private matter.

As new managing editor, I wrote articles about the beliefs of Mitt Romney, about parallels between his hiding financial information and the church refusing to disclose theirs, about the political history of the LDS church and how one might predict its manner of influence if Mitt were elected. I had returned to attending at church, where I had never met the local leadership, and I began a blog chronicling events around my return.

Last Sunday, after Sacrament, I was taken to the Stake President's office and "interviewed" for 45 minutes by the three presidents and bishop. It was unclear how they found me just then, but other facts have come to light on this. They were particularly upset at us hiding our full identities and the messages recently posted at MT and on the blog. At the end, I was given a letter summoning me to disciplinary council for apostasy.

At this time, I have been contacted by the media, but no firm decision has been made at this moment about any action there.

I am trying to work with LDS leaders to open a dialogue about what at MT is factually, doctrinally and historically incorrect. We feel that working with the LDS church authorities, we can make an honest attempt to discuss openly issues of church history and policies that trouble many active members. Our philosophy is to present both sides accurately as possibly and let each member decide with full agency and free will what they believe.

As a concession, the blog was pulled off, the temple material rescinded and I am trying to work with the leaders to correct any MT content that might be inaccurate, as well as forestall action against me at church, since it can be a sensitive family issue for me as well.

We will try to keep you all informed as we can.

Thanks everyone for your support.

[Guest]

I am trying to work with LDS leaders to open a dialogue about what at MT is factually, doctrinally and historically incorrect. We feel that working with the LDS church authorities, we can make an honest attempt to discuss openly issues of church history and policies that trouble many active members.

Hi Dianne,
I would be very interested in hearing how that goes. I'm sure you know that the problem is, the leaders have no good answers so they generally just refuse to discuss or listen.

We will try to keep you all informed as we can.

Thanks everyone for your support.

People are very upset that this is happening. MormonThink is a wonderful website that has helped many with their struggles to find the truth. How awful for you, your family and all others involved. It's just so wrong on so many different levels.

Yes, please keep us informed.....and yes, you have our support.

[_Fifth Columnist]

I am trying to work with LDS leaders to open a dialogue about what at MT is factually, doctrinally and historically incorrect. We feel that working with the LDS church authorities, we can make an honest attempt to discuss openly issues of church history and policies that trouble many active members. Our philosophy is to present both sides accurately as possibly and let each member decide with full agency and free will what they believe.

This is a fool's quest. The Church doesn't want to openly discuss those things. They want them to go away and stop hindering its mission.

[_Tobin]

Hi Dianne,

I would encourage you to stand up for the truth as best God gives you the light to see it. I am not encouraging confrontation nor animosity towards the Church, its members or its leaders however. But, I do not believe your salvation is between you and any man or Church and only between you and God. I would carefully, kindly (but firmly) state your beliefs and views as best you are able and let them decide what they will. If they are unjust and exclude you from assocation with other members of the Church that believe in God because of your passion for what you believe is true, then they will be judged for it by God and you can proceed with a clear conscience. And everyone needs to hear the truth, even if they don't believe it. Then they can then decide if they will act on it and speak with God about it.

Best,

Tobin

[Guest]

Let me guess, they grilled you about the first four temple recommend questions?
Yeah. I was grilled by church leaders for two hours the first time I got called in for and accused of "apostasy."


I hope MT will stand firm in its mission to educate and provide accurate facts about the Mormon faith.

18 months ago I was threatened with church discipline for my involvement with the John Dehlin "movement." I cowarded like a dog and ran with my tail between my legs. I so so regret doing so today. I let the church bully me into silence.

That will not happen again. I have a family of bishops, stake president and HCs... I was told "not to call home" if I spoke with the Washington Post reporter.
I did the interview. Haven't seen my family in a year.

Good luck.

Truth.

Peace.

[_brade]

I am trying to work with LDS leaders to open a dialogue about what at MT is factually, doctrinally and historically incorrect. We feel that working with the LDS church authorities, we can make an honest attempt to discuss openly issues of church history and policies that trouble many active members. Our philosophy is to present both sides accurately as possibly and let each member decide with full agency and free will what they believe.

This is a fool's quest. The Church doesn't want to openly discuss those things. They want them to go away and stop hindering its mission.

Protip for any church authorities who read this forum: Streisand effect

[_Madison54]

Let me guess, they grilled you about the first four temple recommend questions?
Yeah. I was grilled by church leaders for two hours the first time I got called in for and accused of "apostasy."


I hope MT will stand firm in its mission to educate and provide accurate facts about the Mormon faith.

18 months ago I was threatened with church discipline for my involvement with the John Dehlin "movement." I cowarded like a dog and ran with my tail between my legs. I so so regret doing so today. I let the church bully me into silence.

That will not happen again. I have a family of bishops, stake president and HCs... I was told "not to call home" if I spoke with the Washington Post reporter.
I did the interview. Haven't seen my family in a year.

Good luck.

Truth.

Peace.

cwald,
I well remember all that you went through and how awful that was for you. Such betrayal from your family members. I understand why you reacted like you did and I don't think you should regret it even though you'd do things differently today. At the time, you did what you felt was right to protect your family.

This is what angers me the most.....how the church uses our tender feelings for those we love the most to silence us from speaking the truth. This is the very truth that we'd love for our family members to hear and understand. Yet the church preaches "Families Can Be Together Forever" from the rooftops and to investigators.

I am completely out to my family members and they know I no longer attend. Yet out of respect for them I would also not allow myself to become the face of the one who publicly takes a stand. So, I understand where Dianne and others are coming from. What a horrible decision to have to make. Stand up for what's right and hurt their families? Or cower and allow the church to threaten, control and silence? It's all very sickening.

[_just me]

OMG, cwald! Nothing but love for you.

[_Cicero]

This all makes me very sad. I (naïvely in retrospect) thought that we were getting past all of this. I was a freshman in college in September 1993, and in many ways the Church has progressed as an institution from that dark month, but then I see things like this (and things like Dehlin choosing not to publish the Tom Philips interview partially out of fear of church discipline) and I am reminded of how far we still have to go.

[_Bob Loblaw]

This all makes me very sad. I (naïvely in retrospect) thought that we were getting past all of this. I was a freshman in college in September 1993, and in many ways the Church has progressed as an institution from that dark month, but then I see things like this (and things like Dehlin choosing not to publish the Tom Philips interview partially out of fear of church discipline) and I am reminded of how far we still have to go.

I think what has happened is that the church has gotten better at intimidating members so that events like the September are less likely.I doubt anything has changed otherwise.