The Term Anti-Mormon

[_MCB]

Rejection of all religion as abusive is also very important.

Right now I have been writing on Mormonism as a Gnostic religion, so that was at the top of my mind at the moment.

[_Ceeboo]

Hi again, honor (Ceeboo getting exhausted)

Fair, and I never doubted that you respect people, as people.

You mean like instead of toasters or something?

I do doubt that you respect certain aspects of their character.

Okay, I am afraid that I can not control your doubt.

Most of the time, I see your use of the terms "like" and "admire" or even "person" as not that different from, "I know the church is true."

You are telling me what a christian is supposed to say

Thanks!
And I thought I was only sharing my thoughts/opinions/perspectives on a variety of topics.

, IYO anyways, and you may hold that opinion.

Thank you for giving me your permission so that I may hold an opinion.

But it isn't a particularly self-aware statement.

You don't own a mirror, do you?

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_Ceeboo]

Then I'd feel safe in saying you are anti-Mormon.

A long long way to get there but I do appreciate the contribution.

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_Res Ipsa]

Fair, and I never doubted that you respect people, as people. I do doubt that you respect certain aspects of their character. In many cases, these things are primary to their own self-identities.

I think there is a difference between saying, "I like lots of Mormons" and "I think so-and-so's Mormonism helps them be a charitable person, which I admire." The first is tolerance despite the Mormon aspect of their identity. The second is respect of the whole person to some extent. You may not like "Mormonism", but you can like it's effect on the person.

Most of the time, I see your use of the terms "like" and "admire" or even "person" as not that different from, "I know the church is true." You are telling me what a christian is supposed to say, IYO anyways, and you may hold that opinion. But it isn't a particularly self-aware statement.

I'm trying to understand what you're saying here. Suppose I said of the same individual: "I think so-and-so's Mormonism reinforces her bigotry towards gays, which I don't admire." Am I then anti-mormon, even if I see Mormonism as having both a positive and a negative effect on the person's life? To avoid the anti-mormon label, must I accept that Mormonism only influences people in positive ways?

[_Res Ipsa]

Rejection of all religion as abusive is also very important.

Right now I have been writing on Mormonism as a Gnostic religion, so that was at the top of my mind at the moment.

Sorry, I don't understand the first sentence. Are you saying that former Mormons typically view Mormonism as abusive and then generalize that view to all religion?

[_honorentheos]

Fair, and I never doubted that you respect people, as people. I do doubt that you respect certain aspects of their character. In many cases, these things are primary to their own self-identities.

I think there is a difference between saying, "I like lots of Mormons" and "I think so-and-so's Mormonism helps them be a charitable person, which I admire." The first is tolerance despite the Mormon aspect of their identity. The second is respect of the whole person to some extent. You may not like "Mormonism", but you can like it's effect on the person.

Most of the time, I see your use of the terms "like" and "admire" or even "person" as not that different from, "I know the church is true." You are telling me what a christian is supposed to say, IYO anyways, and you may hold that opinion. But it isn't a particularly self-aware statement.

I'm trying to understand what you're saying here. Suppose I said of the same individual: "I think so-and-so's Mormonism reinforces her bigotry towards gays, which I don't admire." Am I then anti-mormon, even if I see Mormonism as having both a positive and a negative effect on the person's life? To avoid the anti-mormon label, must I accept that Mormonism only influences people in positive ways?

My questions to Ceeboo were to get at this: is his dislike of Mormonism an absolute? Whether or not he likes people who happen to be Mormon doesn't seem to matter. He doesn't like the Mormon in them.

What you describe is not an absolute.

I gave Ceeboo multiple opportunities to suggest he had a nuanced view of Mormonism itself and he seems happy to say he does not hold that view. His like of Mormons, as individuals, appears to be inspite of their Mormonism.

[_Fence Sitter]

I think that equating criticism of a religious belief with criticism of the person who has adopted the belief varies widely. I see it very rarely in mainstream American Catholics and Protestants. I see it much more among LDS, JW's, and fundamentalist christians.

I missed this remark Brad, which I find very interesting. I am sure my perspective of how I view religious belief is heavily influenced by being born and raised LDS. So while criticizing Mormonism might be seen by a Mormon as a personal attack, it might not be the same with a Catholic or mainstream Protestant?

[_MCB]

Sorry, I don't understand the first sentence. Are you saying that former Mormons typically view Mormonism as abusive and then generalize that view to all religion?

Exactly.

[_Res Ipsa]

I think that equating criticism of a religious belief with criticism of the person who has adopted the belief varies widely. I see it very rarely in mainstream American Catholics and Protestants. I see it much more among LDS, JW's, and fundamentalist christians.

I missed this remark Brad, which I find very interesting. I am sure my perspective of how I view religious belief is heavily influenced by being born and raised LDS. So while criticizing Mormonism might be seen by a Mormon as a personal attack, it might not be the same with a Catholic or mainstream Protestant?

I was also born and raised LDS, and it took me quite a while after I left Mormonism to understand how mainstream Catholics and Protestants tended to view their religion. Although most view their religion as an important influence on who they are, I find they are more likely to be critical of their own religion when compared to most Mormons and to be far less offended by criticism of their religion than most Mormons. in my opinion, it's a very different mindset, and hard to envision by most BIC Mormons I've encountered.

[_why me]

I was also born and raised LDS, and it took me quite a while after I left Mormonism to understand how mainstream Catholics and Protestants tended to view their religion. Although most view their religion as an important influence on who they are, I find they are more likely to be critical of their own religion when compared to most Mormons and to be far less offended by criticism of their religion than most Mormons. in my opinion, it's a very different mindset, and hard to envision by most BIC Mormons I've encountered.

Well, I can't say that this is true for devout catholics. And especially not for taliban catholics on CAF who view their faith as the absolute truth and who cannot tolerate any criticism of the faith. Those catholics who are critical of their faith are most likely not good catholics.