Mormonism, factual relativism, and Donald Trump

[Alphus and Omegus]

Hi everyone. This is my first post here although I have emailed w/Shades a bit on some technical matters earlier.

I'm new here so I hope it will let me post a link. I don't know the rules. I figured that a recent essay might be of interest on the topic of how the continually shrinking truth claims of Mormonism and the deconstructionist rhetoric often employed by Mopologists have perfectly presaged the current era of politicians talking about "alternative facts" and claiming to be truth-tellers while also engaging in habitual lying.

Hopefully the system here will let me post a link. I'll put it into the next post just in case.

[Alphus and Omegus]

OK here is the link to the essay: https://flux.community/matthew-sheffiel ... nservatism

Here is the Mormonism portion for those who only want to see that part:

---

Though somewhat new to the political realm, such disingenuous assertions have become increasingly common among the few beleaguered academics stuck with the impossible task of defending literalist claims about scripture. Leaning heavily on secular deconstructionist writers, fundamentalists of every stripe have begun taking refuge in the idea that the reason their books’ factual claims rarely pan out is that true history is the real myth and that the ancient past is so shrouded in the mists of time that it is essentially inscrutable.

This self-serving and deeply problematic Biblical interpretation has also been popular among fundamentalist Christians, Muslims, and Jews in a much simpler form as an ersatz argument against evolution. Since you weren’t there when humans emerged through speciation, how can you really know that it happened? Never mind that the exact same thing could be said about events portrayed in their faith’s ancient texts.

Fundamentalist Catholic and Protestant intellectuals have been drifting increasingly in this direction as the fields of archaeology, biology, and linguistics keep unwittingly slaughtering their sacred cows. They have been preceded in their journey by literalist adherents of the Latter-day Saint movement who have spent the last several decades successively attenuating their faith’s claims about the Americas having once been populated by ancient Hebrews known as Nephites. Whereas the movement’s founder, Joseph Smith, began his ministry claiming that the tribe ranged across the entire New World, Mormonism’s largest sect has contented itself with the belief that the people’s settlements were so small that they will never be found.

In a 2015 debate about Book of Mormon historicity, William Hamblin, the late professor of history at Brigham Young University and a prominent LDS apologist, tried to justify this major doctrinal retreat as an act of intellectual honesty. He even went so far as to claim that Mormons had no need whatsoever to provide evidence for their truth claims because history ultimately is unknowable and just a matter of opinion:

Whenever anyone demands “objective evidence” for historical questions you know your [sic] dealing with a hermeneutical and epistemological misunderstanding or naiveté. History—in the sense of the actual human past—does not exist. It cannot be directly observed. You cannot experiment upon it by giving Napoleon an extra division of infantry to see if he could win the battle of Waterloo. History is a non-empirical discipline. And anything that is non-empirical cannot be objective. There is, of course, in the study of the philosophy of science, a significant debate as to the degree to which even empirical and experimental disciplines can be “objective” but that is a different question. Be that as it may, history, clearly, is not empirical. Thus, the demand for “objective evidence” represents a fundamental misunderstanding of both the nature of the human past, and our ability today to understand it.

Boyd K. Packer, a former Mormon apostle, put the concept a different way in a 1981 address to religious educators, warning them that the mantle of authority is “far, far greater than the intellect” and that they must avoid informing students of historical truths that might cause them to be critical of LDS leaders.

“There is a temptation for the writer or the teacher of Church history to want to tell everything, whether it is worthy or faith promoting or not,” he cautioned. “Some things that are true are not very useful.”

[DrW]

OK here is the link to the essay: https://flux.community/matthew-sheffiel ... nservatism

WOW.

Welcome to the Board.

All I can say is that the many parallels between the religious far right (including Mormonism), and Trumpism, have not escaped our notice here.

[Alphus and Omegus]

Thanks. Although I left Mormonism a number of years ago and have discussed it on NPR and other general-interest media, I haven't interacted much with with the Post-Mormon community. Now that I am working on a memoir that deals heavily with Christian and Mormon fundamentalism, I figured I should rectify that.

I'm interested in seeing what the posters here have to say and also if anyone knows of some exmo podcasters out there.

[The Stig]

Thanks. Although I left Mormonism a number of years ago and have discussed it in discussions with NPR and other general-interest media, I haven't interacted much with with the Post-Mormon community. Now that I am working on a memoir the deals heavily with Christian fundamentalism, I figured I should rectify that.

I'm interested in seeing what the posters here have to say and also if anyone knows of some exmo podcasters out there.

Quite a few exmo podcasters out there: Mormonstories, Radio Free Mormon, Latter Day Lesbian, Infants on Thrones (defunct?), come to mind.

[Alphus and Omegus]

Quite a few exmo podcasters out there: Mormonstories, Radio Free Mormon, Latter Day Lesbian, Infants on Thrones (defunct?), come to mind.

Do any of them post on here? I hope so. Unfortunately, email is often a terrible way to make new acquaintances given how draconian anti-spam rules have to be.

[The Stig]

Quite a few exmo podcasters out there: Mormonstories, Radio Free Mormon, Latter Day Lesbian, Infants on Thrones (defunct?), come to mind.

Do any of them post on here? I hope so. Unfortunately, email is often a terrible way to make new acquaintances given how draconian anti-spam rules have to be.

RFM is on this board as consiglieri.

Mormon Stories is run by John Dehlin. He can be found on Facebook, but he is also embroiled in a bit of controversy (see the Rosebud thread also on this board).

LDL can also be found via Facebook.

[Rivendale]

Thanks. Although I left Mormonism a number of years ago and have discussed it in discussions with NPR and other general-interest media, I haven't interacted much with with the Post-Mormon community. Now that I am working on a memoir the deals heavily with Christian fundamentalism, I figured I should rectify that.

I'm interested in seeing what the posters here have to say and also if anyone knows of some exmo podcasters out there.

Quite a few exmo podcasters out there: Mormonstories, Radio Free Mormon, Latter Day Lesbian, Infants on Thrones (defunct?), come to mind.

Infants on Thrones is not defunct. Glen operates most of it now and does not focus on ex Mormon topics every podcast. Recently he has moved a little bit more into Mormonism.

[The Stig]

Quite a few exmo podcasters out there: Mormonstories, Radio Free Mormon, Latter Day Lesbian, Infants on Thrones (defunct?), come to mind.

Infants on Thrones is not defunct. Glen operates most of it now and does not focus on ex Mormon topics every podcast. Recently he has moved a little bit more into Mormonism.

Good to know.

[Alphus and Omegus]

Do any of them post on here? I hope so. Unfortunately, email is often a terrible way to make new acquaintances given how draconian anti-spam rules have to be.

RFM is on this board as consiglieri.

Mormon Stories is run by John Dehlin. He can be found on Facebook, but he is also embroiled in a bit of controversy (see the Rosebud thread also on this board).

LDL can also be found via Facebook.

Thanks. Perhaps consiglieri's ears will itch at your mention of his handle. I tried reached out via email to Bill but he appears to use Gmail which means no one new can ever email him without going to spam.

In coming back to Mormonism as an exmo, there are a lot of fascinating intersections with other religious and political movements that I have covered.

I'm up for discussing these intersections and also to help publish articles from people here, should they be interested. My new site, Flux, is one of the few general-interest publications that aims to cover theological controversies.