for what it's worth: My thoughts on new essay re Joseph Smith's polygamy

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_Quasimodo
_Emeritus
Posts: 11784
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:11 am

Re: for what it's worth: My thoughts on new essay re Joseph Smith's polygam

Post by _Quasimodo »

Hasa Diga Eebowai wrote:
Quasimodo wrote:It seems that informant has been studying Tobin's style and demeanor.


Or maybe there is a mopologetic trolling handbook that describes how to go danite online? :lol:

Thanks,

Hasa Diga Eebowai


:lol: :lol: :lol:

No doubt available at Deseret Book.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
_Hasa Diga Eebowai
_Emeritus
Posts: 2390
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 8:57 am

-

Post by _Hasa Diga Eebowai »

-
Last edited by Guest on Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
_Quasimodo
_Emeritus
Posts: 11784
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:11 am

Re: for what it's worth: My thoughts on new essay re Joseph Smith's polygam

Post by _Quasimodo »

Hasa Diga Eebowai wrote:
Quasimodo wrote: :lol: :lol: :lol:

No doubt available at Deseret Book.


Who knows maybe it's even called the Testimony Fist? :lol:

Thanks,

Hasa Diga Eebowai

"Trolling for the Lord" A step by step instructional book on how to derail anti-Mormon discussions on the Internet.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
_mentalgymnast
_Emeritus
Posts: 8574
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:39 pm

Re: for what it's worth: My thoughts on new essay re Joseph Smith's polygam

Post by _mentalgymnast »

Rollo Tomasi wrote:...my thoughts about the new LDS essay addressing Joseph Smith's polygamy and polyandry in Kirtland and Nauvoo.


Hi Rollo, I've been reading your essay. On page five you quote D&C 132:8.

Behold, mine house is a house of order, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion.


You then attach an interpretive meaning to the scripture by seeing/observing a conflict between the practice of polygamy (messy at times) and God's house being a house of order...not confusion.

I'm not sure that I'm seeing a conflict here. Overall, God's works do have an "order" to them. But it is rather obvious that God creates order out of chaos. The "order" isn't necessarily self existent without influence/direction from God and/or superior authority and the resultant response/choice/agency of man. The order is achieved through a process of trial and error. Repeated attempts to create order out of a chaotic and yet modifiable set of circumstances...including the very REAL inclusion and/or factor of fallible beings.

In my mind your interpretive stance is possibly an example of a flawed supposition and/or assumption. That order is a static IS. Rather than a result of a malleable MAY BECOME set of circumstances.

Thoughts?

Regards,
MG
_Hasa Diga Eebowai
_Emeritus
Posts: 2390
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 8:57 am

-

Post by _Hasa Diga Eebowai »

-
Last edited by Guest on Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
_mentalgymnast
_Emeritus
Posts: 8574
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:39 pm

Re: for what it's worth: My thoughts on new essay re Joseph Smith's polygam

Post by _mentalgymnast »

Rollo Tomasi wrote:Here's the latest in my "for what it's worth" series -- my thoughts about the new LDS essay addressing Joseph Smith's polygamy and polyandry in Kirtland and Nauvoo. The paper ended up being far too long to post normally, so I had to create it as a "google doc." You can access a PDF copy of the paper via the link below.

EDITED TO ADD:

Below is the link to my REVISED draft (with the addition of one word previously left out, to my great chagrin):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B22-zr ... xnTVU/view


Are we to assume and/or accept that your essay does not contain faulty suppositions/assumptions?

Regards,
MG
_Rollo Tomasi
_Emeritus
Posts: 4085
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:27 pm

Re: for what it's worth: My thoughts on new essay re Joseph Smith's polygam

Post by _Rollo Tomasi »

mentalgymnast wrote:Hi Rollo, I've been reading your essay. On page five you quote D&C 132:8.
Behold, mine house is a house of order, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion.
You then attach an interpretive meaning to the scripture by seeing/observing a conflict between the practice of polygamy (messy at times) and God's house being a house of order...not confusion.

I'm not sure that I'm seeing a conflict here. Overall, God's works do have an "order" to them. But it is rather obvious that God creates order out of chaos. The "order" isn't necessarily self existent without influence/direction from God and/or superior authority and the resultant response/choice/agency of man. The order is achieved through a process of trial and error. Repeated attempts to create order out of a chaotic and yet modifiable set of circumstances...including the very REAL inclusion and/or factor of fallible beings.

In my mind your interpretive stance is possibly an example of a flawed supposition and/or assumption. That order is a static IS. Rather than a result of a malleable MAY BECOME set of circumstances.
I referenced verse 8 because it appears in the plural revelation immediately after verse 7, in which the Lord states "the conditions of this law" (and I interpret "this law" to mean plural marriage); thus, I consider the "house of order" statement in verse 8 to be very important to this new law. But the LDS essay on Joseph's polygamy (on p. 1) claims that the Lord "did not give exact instructions on how to obey the commandment," which I think is absurd in light of the details in D&C 132 itself and well as the essay's suggestion (in my view) that the Lord's alleged failure to give Joseph exact instructions is what led to a lot of the crazy episodes involving Joseph's polygamy, which makes no sense to me when the Lord just said His house is one of order and not confusion. I don't see anything in D&C 132 to even suggest that with this new law God intends to 'create order out of chaos.' I'm not saying it didn't occur that way in other contexts, just not this one, even though the LDS essay seems to be arguing to the contrary.
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."

-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)
_Rollo Tomasi
_Emeritus
Posts: 4085
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:27 pm

Re: for what it's worth: My thoughts on new essay re Joseph Smith's polygam

Post by _Rollo Tomasi »

mentalgymnast wrote:
Rollo Tomasi wrote:Here's the latest in my "for what it's worth" series -- my thoughts about the new LDS essay addressing Joseph Smith's polygamy and polyandry in Kirtland and Nauvoo. The paper ended up being far too long to post normally, so I had to create it as a "google doc." You can access a PDF copy of the paper via the link below.

EDITED TO ADD:

Below is the link to my REVISED draft (with the addition of one word previously left out, to my great chagrin):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B22-zr ... xnTVU/view
Are we to assume and/or accept that your essay does not contain faulty suppositions/assumptions?
No.
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."

-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)
_informant
_Emeritus
Posts: 209
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:18 am

Re: for what it's worth: My thoughts on new essay re Joseph Smith's polygam

Post by _informant »

Rollo Tomasi wrote:Don't worry your pretty little head -- it was my time and brainpower.



such a waste,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i could think of a million other things you could do with that precious time............yknow like server others or something
University education is increasingly a scam that is nowhere near cost justified. - Gadianton, dean of Cassius university link
_Molok
_Emeritus
Posts: 1832
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:31 am

Re: for what it's worth: My thoughts on new essay re Joseph Smith's polygam

Post by _Molok »

informant wrote:
Rollo Tomasi wrote:Don't worry your pretty little head -- it was my time and brainpower.



such a waste,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i could think of a million other things you could do with that precious time............yknow like server others or something


Since we're all commenting on better things we could be doing with our time, I'd advise you to stop acting like a sniveling butthurt Mormon, and spend your time learning the English language. Who else in the world is stupid enough to type a bunch of commas instead of periods and not notice that? Lol.
Post Reply