You may have heard the claim that there have been at least 32 suicides by LDS teens with same-sex attraction since the Church made the now well-known changes in the handbook.
I’d like to make a few comments about that claim.
First, and this should be obvious but it still bears repeating: every suicide is a tragedy, for the person and for the person’s family. I agree with the Church spokesman who said that every soul is precious to God and the loss of life to suicide is heartbreaking.
But second, the people who are trumpeting the claims are well-established critics of the Church who are reporting from people they claim have talked to them privately. No independent confirmation of these numbers has taken place. You, dear reader, can choose to believe what you want, but based on my life’s experience, I simply don’t believe that these people are telling the truth. Given the ghoulish way that they are glorying in their claims (which in their minds confirm their opinion that the Church is bad, bad, BAD), is it beyond the pale to believe that they have simply made things up? I think not.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
You, dear reader, can choose to believe what you want, but based on my life’s experience, I simply don’t believe that these people are telling the truth. Given the ghoulish way that they are glorying in their claims (which in their minds confirm their opinion that the Church is bad, bad, BAD), is it beyond the pale to believe that they have simply made things up? I think not.
I will trust the mama dragons on this. I can understand the desire for confidentiality by these families. These are members of the church and in some cases the person was not "out."
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden ~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
Blame Dehlin on January 31, 2016 at 11:18 am said:
I blame John Dehlin. This revelation was never meant to be revealed. If Dehlin hadn’t revealed it, the suicides wouldn’t have happened. The blood is on his hands.
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)
consiglieri wrote:This was an interesting comment:
Blame Dehlin on January 31, 2016 at 11:18 am said:
I blame John Dehlin. This revelation was never meant to be revealed. If Dehlin hadn’t revealed it, the suicides wouldn’t have happened. The blood is on his hands.
Wow.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
This was posted on Facebook by Wendy Williams Montgomery (of Mama Dragons fame):
There are many asking the same questions of me. I will try and address the most frequently asked questions here. I cannot possibly respond to the hundreds of tags, links, comments and posts. I hope this post will suffice and then you will all let me move on. This week has been brutal. Few will know how heavy the weight is of being the watchman of these accumulating stories. My heart has been so heavy with grief for months now. Then to have my honesty and character questioned hundreds of times. Yeah, it kinda sucks. I never wanted to be the one with these numbers. I never solicited these stories. I wasn’t prepared for the number to be out there publicly, but I don’t fault or blame John for talking about it. It’s an important conversation to have, as long as it is addressed in the right/safe way and doesn’t add to the problem. I can’t control the many reposts and everything others are saying. So the claim of me “being irresponsible with the numbers” should be laid at the feet of those who have posted inflammatory offshoot articles, comments, memes or posts. I have only spoken to the Deseret News and the Salt Lake Tribune about this. They sought me out, not the other way around. I was VERY clear with both Tad Walch (DN) and Peggy Fletcher Stack (SLTrib) that my numbers were unverified, that I didn’t have death dates, or all the victim’s names. Sometimes I only had the name of the loved one who reached out to me. I only had their word that what they were saying was true. I only told them in what time frame the emails, Facebook messages and phone calls came. I was not acting as a record keeper or statistician. These family members were reaching out to me in their pain and I was trying to help in whatever way I could, despite not having any training in grief counseling or even knowing what to say to help them. I feel like both news articles made it clear that my numbers were unverified. I never claimed they were. I just relayed to them what had come to me. This information was never solicited. There were no surveys or research. I didn’t collect this information as a tool to attack the LDS Church. If I was attacking the church, I highly doubt the Deseret News would have sourced me in the article. I am an active, attending, temple-recommend holding member. I love my church. But I also feel it’s important to talk about the ways the church has been hurting so many people that I love. Calling the church to a higher way of being and loving is not attacking it. This information is self-reported by grieving family members. Verifying this information is complicated by multiple factors: 1) Most reports were from family but often not the parents. Siblings, cousins, aunts and uncles have reached out to me. 2) Many times the parents were not aware of (or in denial of) the sexual orientation of their children. And it is a common Mormon belief that people aren't gay in heaven so their child is no longer gay. 3) Because of shame, other families will hide that their child was LGBT. They also hide the fact that it was suicide since it is often taught in Mormon churches that suicide is akin to murder. No family wants that to be the lasting legacy of their lost loved one. 4) These are self-reported by people reaching out in grief for support, so we are not hiring investigators to verify. 5) There are many circumstances such as accidents or drug overdoses (of legal or illegal drugs) that are not reported as suicides. 6) Because a loved one messaged me during November, December and January doesn’t mean that is when their loved one died. It could have been much earlier. I didn’t ask for death dates. I actually didn’t ask them anything, other than what I could do to help them. So unless these parents and family members want to come forward, this information is not going to be shared to the public. It would be highly inappropriate for me to share information unofficially collected from grieving family members seeking support. Not to mention, I promised them I would not share their names or any identifying details with anyone. And I haven’t. This is my last attempt at answering questions.
consiglieri wrote:This was an interesting comment:
Blame Dehlin on January 31, 2016 at 11:18 am said:
I blame John Dehlin. This revelation was never meant to be revealed. If Dehlin hadn’t revealed it, the suicides wouldn’t have happened. The blood is on his hands.
Hmm. That's like blaming William Law for the death of Joseph Smith. Which they probably do.
A revelation that "was never meant to be revealed"? WTF? Was John Dehlin reading from a "sealed book"? What a bunch of lying weasely wankers.
consiglieri wrote:This was an interesting comment:
Blame Dehlin on January 31, 2016 at 11:18 am said:
I blame John Dehlin. This revelation was never meant to be revealed. If Dehlin hadn’t revealed it, the suicides wouldn’t have happened. The blood is on his hands.
Dehlin can't be blamed because he didn't reveal it. As usual, he is getting credit for something he didn't do. The policy was leaked on Reddit and it wasn't Dehlin who leaked it. I read it on Reddit before Dehlin even mentioned it. It was getting noticed on Reddit, but Dehlin took it and agitated it through his network and voila! Somehow all of a sudden Dehlin singlehandedly appears like he was the righteous crusader who discovered this. The media and the church even falsely blame him for leaking this. I don't mind Dehlin, but it bugs me how he is so often able to take credit for crap he never did. Sometimes he doesn't even take the credit, his followers just give it to him and then he goes with it rather than correcting it. What is even more amazing is the church and his TBM critics actually attribute credit to him for things he didn't set in motion or "uncover".
consiglieri wrote:This was an interesting comment:
This revelation was never meant to be revealed.
Nice wordplay.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die." - Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
consiglieri wrote:This was an interesting comment:
Blame Dehlin on January 31, 2016 at 11:18 am said:
I blame John Dehlin. This revelation was never meant to be revealed. If Dehlin hadn’t revealed it, the suicides wouldn’t have happened. The blood is on his hands.
I bet we all can name whose sock drawer "Blame Dehlin" came out of!
New name: Boaz The most viewed "ignored" poster in Shady Acres® !
