MetalSlasher wrote:I thought it was just an angel with a drawn sword. Who said the sword was flaming?
Various accounts have described it as a flaming sword.
That's a good catch, though. It looks like the earliest accounts describe it as a drawn sword, and the extra drama associated with a flaming sword crept in over time.
For example -
"When that principle was revealed to the Prophet Joseph Smith ... he did not falter, although it was not until an angel of God, with a drawn sword, stood before him; and commanded that he should enter into the practice of that principle, or he should be utterly destroyed, or rejected, that he moved forward to reveal and establish that doctrine." - Prophet Joseph F. Smith, "Plural Marriage for the Righteous Only-Obedience Imperative-Blessings Resulting", Journal of Discourses, Vol.20, p.28 - p.29
"I know whereon I stand, I know what I believe, I know what I know and I know what I testify to you is the living truth. As I expect to meet it at the bar of the eternal Jehovah, it is true. And when you stand before the bar you will know. He preached polygamy and he not only preached it, but he practiced it. I am a living witness to it. It was given to him before he gave it to the Church. An angel came to him and the last time he came with a drawn sword in his hand and told Joseph if he did not go into that principle, he would slay him." - Sister Mary Lightner, Address to Brigham Young University, April 14th, 1905, BYU Archives and Manuscripts See: http://www.ldshistory.net/pc/merlbyu.htm
"His brother, Hyrum, said to me, "Now, Brother Benjamin, you know that Brother Joseph would not sanction this if it was not from the Lord. The Lord revealed this to Brother Joseph long ago, and he put it off until the Angel of the Lord came to him with a drawn sword and told him that he would be slain if he did not go forth and fulfill the law." He told my sister to have no fears, and he there and then sealed my sister, Almira, to the Prophet."
"Soon after this he was at my house again, where he occupied my Sister Almira's room and bed, and also asked me for my youngest sister, Esther M. I told him she was promised in marriage to my wife's brother. He said, "Well, let them marry, for it will all come right."" - Elder Benjamin F. Johnson, My Life's Review
"He there and then explained to me the doctrine of plurality of wives; he said that the Lord had revealed it unto him, and commanded him to have women sealed to him as wives; that he foresaw the trouble that would follow, and sought to turn away from the commandment; that an angel from heaven then appeared before him with a drawn sword, threatening him with destruction unless he went forward and obey the commandment."
"19 year-old Zina remained conflicted until a day in October, apparently, when Joseph sent [her older brother] Dimick to her with a message: an angel with a drawn sword had stood over Smith and told him that if he did not establish polygamy, he would lose "his position and his life." Zina, faced with the responsibility for his position as prophet, and even perhaps his life, finally acquiesced." (In Sacred Loneliness, page 80-81)
"An Angel of God Stood by him (Joseph Smith) with a drawn Sword and told him he should be slain & Cut off from the Earth and the kingdom of God if he did not obey that Law (of polygamy). George Q Cannon was of the same opinion, that a man must have more then one wife at a time in order to obey that Law." - Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Wilford Woordruff's Journal, Vol. 8, p.235
compared with
A grand and glorious principle had been revealed, and for years had slumbered in the breast of God's Prophet, awaiting the time when, with safety to himself and the Church, it might be confided to the sacred keeping of a chosen few. That time had now come. An angel with a flaming sword descended from the courts of glory and, confronting the Prophet, commanded him in the name of the Lord to establish the principle so long concealed from the knowledge of the Saints and of the world—that of plural marriage.(Orson F. Whitney, Life of Heber C. Kimball [Salt Lake City: Kimball Family, 1888], 321.)
While it was a great trial for Mercy to enter into plural marriage, it was even a greater trial for Mary to consent to it. Truly, it was the most difficult thing both ever had to do. It was equally difficult for Hyrum. The principle of plural marriage was given as early as 1831. Joseph Smith had inquired of God to know and understand wherein He justified His prophets of old as touching upon the principle and doctrine of their having plural wives and concubines. The principle was then revealed by the Lord to Joseph. fn He was commanded to obey it. He did not immediately comply. Then, according to Apostle George A. Smith, an angel with a flaming sword appeared to the Prophet Joseph and warned him that unless he obeyed it, he would be destroyed. (Don Cecil Corbett, Mary Fielding Smith, Daughter of Britain: Portrait of Courage [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1966], 154.)
A grand and glorious principle had been revealed, and for years had slumbered in the breast of God's Prophet, awaiting the time when, with safety to himself and the Church, it might be confided to the sacred keeping of a chosen few. That time had now come. An angel with a flaming sword descended from the courts of glory and, confronting the Prophet, commanded him in the name of the Lord to establish the principle so long concealed from the knowledge of the Saints and of the world-that of plural marriage.(H. Dean Garrett, ed., Regional Studies in Latter-day Saint History: Illinois [Provo: Department of Church History and Doctrine, 1995], 135.)
(borrowed both from a thread on exmormon.org)
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa
To the OP - I am not sure it's safe to take information published in the National Enquirer and just run with it. Not that I'm a fan of Cruz, but I believe some of the women identified in the article came forward and denied the article was truthful. So, caution seems warranted.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa
the 2 of 5 who have denied having an affair with Cruz both have a strong incentive to lie about it -- admitting to it would all but end their careers as political campaign operatives.
i've heard several examples of past political sex scandals the Enquirer got right (John Edwards, Jesse Jackson, Gary Hart), but are there any that they got wrong?
from an interview Cruz gave to Washington Post back in January...
At a time when Ted Cruz felt unsatisfied with his track in Washington, he made a decision to take a high-profile job in Austin — as Texas’s solicitor general — that provided a testing ground for his conservative arguments but also forced him to move 1,500 miles from Heidi, who continued working at the Treasury Department in Washington.
The job ultimately helped to launch Ted Cruz’s political career. It also nearly backfired: He and Heidi weathered several years of strained, long-distance commuting. And when Heidi finally moved to Texas, the strain only grew. She fell into a depression, what Cruz calls the couple’s “difficult chapter.”
i believe this is the time period that some or all of the alleged affairs took place.
palerobber wrote:the 2 of 5 who have denied having an affair with Cruz both have a strong incentive to lie about it -- admitting to it would all but end their careers as political campaign operatives.
Very good point.
palerobber wrote:i've heard several examples of past political sex scandals the Enquirer got right (John Edwards, Jesse Jackson, Gary Hart), but are there any that they got wrong?
I am certain that any Enquirer story about a candidate having sex with an alien is very questionable
New name: Boaz The most viewed "ignored" poster in Shady Acres® !
palerobber wrote:from an interview Cruz gave to Washington Post back in January...
At a time when Ted Cruz felt unsatisfied with his track in Washington, he made a decision to take a high-profile job in Austin — as Texas’s solicitor general — that provided a testing ground for his conservative arguments but also forced him to move 1,500 miles from Heidi, who continued working at the Treasury Department in Washington.
The job ultimately helped to launch Ted Cruz’s political career. It also nearly backfired: He and Heidi weathered several years of strained, long-distance commuting. And when Heidi finally moved to Texas, the strain only grew. She fell into a depression, what Cruz calls the couple’s “difficult chapter.”
i believe this is the time period that some or all of the alleged affairs took place.
palerobber wrote:the 2 of 5 who have denied having an affair with Cruz both have a strong incentive to lie about it -- admitting to it would all but end their careers as political campaign operatives.
i've heard several examples of past political sex scandals the Enquirer got right (John Edwards, Jesse Jackson, Gary Hart), but are there any that they got wrong?
Honestly, I think it takes a certain kind of mindset to be titillated by these kinds of accusations. Until substantiated, it's hearsay. We're in a campaign that has lowered the bar on both candidate and public behavior standards to the point it almost feels one needs to be shameless to participate at all. Why validate another face of the most base human behaviors coming out this election cycle?
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa
answering my own question, here's some political sex scandals the Enquirer got wrong (as far as we know), courtesy of Salon.com... "Supreme Court Justice Scalia -- Murdered by a Hooker" (2016) "[Bill] Clinton Sex Romp Caught on Video!" (2003) "'Family Man' Marco Rubio's Love Child Stunner!" (2015) "Hillary Clinton Lesbian Lovers Named in Secret Emails" (2015)
palerobber wrote:the 2 of 5 who have denied having an affair with Cruz both have a strong incentive to lie about it -- admitting to it would all but end their careers as political campaign operatives.
i've heard several examples of past political sex scandals the Enquirer got right (John Edwards, Jesse Jackson, Gary Hart), but are there any that they got wrong?
Honestly, I think it takes a certain kind of mindset to be titillated by these kinds of accusations. Until substantiated, it's hearsay. We're in a campaign that has lowered the bar on both candidate and public behavior standards to the point it almost feels one needs to be shameless to participate at all. Why validate another face of the most base human behaviors coming out this election cycle?
my interest is political not prurient, if that's what you're suggesting.
if Ted Cruz weren't a theocrat, i wouldn't have the slightest interest in his extramarital affairs.
palerobber wrote:if Ted Cruz weren't a theocrat, i wouldn't have the slightest interest in his extramarital affairs.
I get that there is a certain integrity issue involved were the allegations to be found to be true. But, and I think this is a critical but, so long as they are allegations without substantiation it seems to be down in the gutter with all of the worst that is legitimately being reported on in the election. I don't see how participating in it at this point is good for anyone. My feeling is let the press dig into it and either come back with legitimate evidence or let it fall to the side as just another political rumor.
There's a certain element of the Hunter S. Thompson approach to journalism* to this, even if there is substance to the rumor, that makes the rumor itself a form of political speech and attack. And on those grounds it seems beneath the best we have to offer.
*Thinking specifically of his starting a rumor about Ed Muskie having an ibogaine addiction. As Thompson later clarified, “I never said he was (taking ibogaine), I said there was a rumor in Milwaukeee that he was. Which was true, and I started the rumor in Milwaukee. If you read that carefully, I’m a very accurate journalist.”
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa