Here is an example. It's about 40 plus pages of this kind of crap one can wade through.
smac wrote:
The angst about "justice" for this woman is attributable, to some extent, to her not reporting it to law enforcement.
Juliann wrote:
Ever more creative in the victim blaming.....no matter that she did and it still didn't matter.
smac wrote:
I have repeatedly and emphatically emphasized that I am not faulting her for any mental health problems she may have (by her own reckoning). I do fault her, however, for threatening to murder Bro. Bishop. I also have concerns about her luring him into a room alone under false pretenses (as I would if a middle-aged man used false pretenses to lure an elderly woman into a room alone).
Not "doubt." Withhold judgment when all we've got is crappy evidence, and otherwise proceed oin a generalized innocent-until-proven-guilty kind of way.
If she waited 25+ years before saying anything? If she lured him - now as a very old man recovering from a heart attack - into a private, one-on-one "interview" under false pretenses? If she used profanity and anger and reminders that she had previously threatened to murder him, and that she now wants him to admit to the misconduct and apologize for it?
Yes, I would be making the same arguments and defenses.
kllindley wrote:
You don't see her description of her sexually violent alcoholic father (step father?) As a possible source of disturbance?
Juliann wrote:
What possible difference does that make now? Is it really too much to stop victim blaming when there is now a police report with his admission? This is now about him, not her.
smac wrote:
Oh brother. In her interview she references her "violently sexually abusive" step-father (p. 25) who was also a pedophile (pp. 33, 38), which is why she says she went to see Bro. Bishop. She says that Bro. Bishop "hurt" her 33 years prior, that has "struggled for 33 years," and that she "need{s} an apology" (pp. 26, 63). She says that he "destroyed {her} faith and testimony" (p. 27). She acknowledges Bro. Bishop's comment that she "had had a tough life" (p. 27). She states that she had been raped and had a baby and given it up for adoption (p. 28). She says that after she returned from her mission she "ha{d} not healed" from Bro. Bishop's abuse of her (p. 29), which is why she claims to have spoken with Elder Asay. She calls herself "a broken woman because of the things {Bro. Bishop} did" (p. 31). She asks him "{h}ow many other young women in the Church have been destroyed like {her}" because of Bro. Bishop (p. 32). She tells him that he "ha{s} no f***ing idea the pain {he has} caused {her}" (p. 41). She speaks of "young vulnerable women, broken women" and includes herself in that characterization (pp. 41, 42). She says she was "a victim of sexual abuse as a child" (p. 43). She said repeatedly told Bro. Bishop, that she had threatened to kill him, that she "{has} a gun" (pp. 44, 47), and that another woman had also threatened him, and that he "should probably hide" (p. 43). She states that she categorically "cannot trust men" (p. 55). She tells Bro. Bishop that she "ha{s} never recovered" from what he did to her (p. 56). She says she has "suffered tremendously" from what he did to her (p. 58). She "absolutely resent{s}" all priesthood leaders because of what Bro. Bishop did (p. 63). She calls herself "a freak magnet" and she "refuse{s} to let anyone near {her}" (p. 64). She says "I am damaged" several times (pp. 64-65). She says she has "no desire to even pretend ... to trust again ever anyone." (p. 65).
She really did use false pretenses to lure him into a private, one-on-one "interview." That's not "conjecture."
She really did repeatedly reference her previous threats to murder him. That's not "conjecture."
He really is 85 years old, and was recovering from a heart attack at the time of the "interview." That's not "conjecture."
And pointing these things out is not a "defense" of Bro. Bishop. It is a critique of poor evidence.
provoman wrote:
What was the failure to act 30 years ago and do you mean 33 years ago? What evidence do you offer? What we have is “that one said v that one said.” The person who issued multiple death threats said she talked to Elder Asay, the statement from the Church is that there is no record of such a meeting.
smac wrote:
In what way? She's not a member of the Church. What would you expect the Church to do "to show a little more compassion" to her?
I think a young woman who exposes her breasts to an older man in an ecclesiastical setting is clearly not ready for the rigors of missionary work.
Thanks,
-Smac
Duncan wrote;
I have never known the Holy Ghost to be involved in anything and something terrible has come from it,
ksfisher wrote:
"Latter-day Saints do not expect God to simply hand down information. He expects us to wrestle with the complications of life through prayerful searching and sound thinking."
