Radio Free Mormon: Elder Snow Goes Rogue!

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_Shulem
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Radio Free Mormon: Elder Snow Goes Rogue!

Post by _Shulem »

The Bomb!

:surprised:

Radio Free Mormon: 85: Elder Snow Goes Rogue

WHY THE CHURCH PRODUCED THE ESSAYS:

Elder Snow wrote:The brethren felt it was really time where we really needed a safe place for members to go to learn about some of these chapters or incidences in our history that had caused some questions or concerns

A safe place? This seems to imply that the only safe place on the Internet to learn about these things would have to be on the church website. This "safe place" with its biased essays are supposed to provide comprehensive answers to the questions? How hardly!

The church essays don't really provide answers to the questions that are most disturbing, rather they provide an array of new questions one may pick and choose to answer the original questions. It's answering questions with more questions, thus, leaving everything open ended.

One walks into the essays only to walk out with more questions which leaves a person with only one choice: Search the Internet for more answers because you won't get them from the church, not now, not in the past, and not ever!

We just don't know enough about it.

We don't know. We don't know.


Image

Obey us, no matter what! Your total obedience is required.
_consiglieri
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Re: Radio Free Mormon: Elder Snow Goes Rogue!

Post by _consiglieri »

So glad you liked it, Shulem!!!
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)
_Uther
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Re: Radio Free Mormon: Elder Snow Goes Rogue!

Post by _Uther »

Great podcast Consig! Your voice have lifted me up many a times, on my way to or from work.
About Joseph Smith.. How do you think his persona was influenced by being the storyteller since childhood? Mastering the art of going pale, changing his voice, and mesmerizing his audience.. How do you think he was influenced by keeping secrets and lying for his wife and the church members for decades?
_I have a question
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Re: Radio Free Mormon: Elder Snow Goes Rogue!

Post by _I have a question »

In relation to Church history, the best scholarship, the most educated and best read scholars, are outside of Church employment...did I hear that correctly?
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_Shulem
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Re: Radio Free Mormon: Elder Snow Goes Rogue!

Post by _Shulem »

The final 15 minutes of the podcast (1:25) drops a bomb wherein elder Snow directly contradicts President Nelsatan on the LGBT exclusion policy of 2015 which was reversed just 3 years later. Snow is out of step with apostolic testimony and Spirit confirmation given by President NelSatan who at the time was President of the Twelve. In an interview with Peggy Fletcher Stack who asked how he felt about the reversal of the policy he responds:

Elder Snow wrote:I'm very, very happy with the reversal (laugh). :lol:


When asked about what he thought about the policy when it came out he said:

Elder Snow wrote:I was very disappointed.

I have a lot of friends and acquaintances and it just seemed (pause) uugh, it didn't seem well thought out, (stutter) it was an amendment to the handbook, why would we lead with we don't bless the children of, (pause & stutter), of gay and lesbian parents, it just did not make sense to me it was hard for me, ugh, I'm very, very glad they reversed it.


:surprised:

Wow. Just wow.

Nevertheless, I commend elder Snow for his position and his confession. But it does show that he is out of step with the brethren and out of harmony with the Spirit.

:wink:
_Shulem
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Re: Radio Free Mormon: Elder Snow Goes Rogue!

Post by _Shulem »

Radio Free Mormon 1:40 wrote:The highest form of worshipping God in the LDS church is when we follow the leaders of the church even when it does not comport with the dictates of our own conscience, even when it contradicts the dictates of our own conscience, following the leaders of the church regardless of the fact of what they say and teach violates the dictates of our conscience is the highest form of worship.


:eek:
_Aristotle Smith
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Re: Radio Free Mormon: Elder Snow Goes Rogue!

Post by _Aristotle Smith »

Regarding Elder Snow's comments that they hired outside historians so that they would have the best and most current research from the best historians for writing the gospel topics essays, I call BS (at least partially).

In this case the LDS church is just showing itself to be what it is: a huge corporation operating under the same unwritten rules all US corporations operate under. Anyone who has worked for big companies knows this song and dance. When something controversial or risky has to be done, it is usually not done by people working for the corporation, it is usually farmed out to consultants and consulting firms. Why?

  • It provides plausible deniability if the project goes bad. You just blame the consultants if you don't get the product you want.
  • It allows upper management to take all of the praise if things go right. The consulting company won't be invited to the meetings where praise is given (they know this is part of the game too). None of the rank and file are involved and can't share any of the praise. Thus upper management is free to claim all of the praise and merit because nobody else can or will.
  • It costs a lot of money to hire these consultants. If this seems like a downside, you don't know how upper management thinks. Power in upper management is mostly tied to the size of one's spending. If you spend more, you have more power. Hiring consultants is a great way to boost your spending, hence your power and perceived importance.
  • Upper management does not have to treat rank and file equals nor to share any power with them. In management power is meant to be used, not shared. In modern knowledge based corporations, this is a real problem for upper management. They manage knowledge, but usually don't have a single clue about the knowledge nor how it is used or produced.

I think all of these apply here. The non-church paid historians (read consultants) gave upper management the deniability they needed. They could fire them at any time with no repercussions. The apostles could continue to take all of the praise, no church historians would need to be acknowledged. I'm sure the church historians were fine seeing their budgets include pricey line items for outside historians. While it's probably nowhere near as expensive as hiring management, accounting, or IT consultants I'm guessing they did command a higher wage than do the on staff historians. Note, I may be wrong on this one, I'm just guessing.

Finally, the apostles didn't have to share power with the rank and file historians. The last thing they want is for historians to get all uppity and think they have some sort of influence or power they can wield. I also think this accounts for the why Snow threw them under the bus by saying they hired outside because they wanted the best. There are ways of hiring outside people without throwing your own people under the bus. Usually the line is something like, "Our people are just so busy doing other important projects that we had to hire outside consultants to get this important project done."

In summary:
  • The LDS church behave just like any other US corporation.
  • LDS apostles behave just like upper management at any US corporation
  • The historians working for the LDS church are probably just as competent as other historians, but it is convenient to throw them under the bus.

There is one benefit the historians received: they all kept their jobs. Had they written the essays, they would have been marked men and women. They would be the ones who had unacceptable ideas about the Book of Abraham, polyandry, and teenage brides. To put it in Shades' terms, they would be expressing Internet Mormon ideas in a Chapel Mormon context, which is always a dangerous thing to do. Even Internet Mormons know when they are supposed to pretend to be Chapel Mormons.
_Maksutov
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Re: Radio Free Mormon: Elder Snow Goes Rogue!

Post by _Maksutov »

Aristotle Smith hits it out of the park.
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_Shulem
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Re: Radio Free Mormon: Elder Snow Goes Rogue!

Post by _Shulem »

With regards to the 2015 church policy on LGBT kids:

Elder Steven E Snow
Image
wrote:

It didn't seem well thought out


As opposed to:

President Russell M. NelSatan of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
wrote:

We considered countless permutations and combinations of possible scenarios that could arise

President Nelson Explains Origins of the Handbook Change
_Shulem
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Re: Radio Free Mormon: Elder Snow Goes Rogue!

Post by _Shulem »

With regards to the 2015 church policy on LGBT kids:

Elder Steven E Snow
Image
wrote:

Why would we lead with we don't bless the children of gay and lesbian parents, it just did not make sense to me


As opposed to:

President Russell M. NelSatan of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
wrote:

We met repeatedly in the temple in fasting and prayer and sought further direction and inspiration.

And then, when the Lord inspired His prophet, President Thomas S. Monson, to declare the mind of the Lord and the will of the Lord, each of us during that sacred moment felt a spiritual confirmation. It was our privilege as Apostles to sustain what had been revealed to President Monson. Revelation from the Lord to His servants is a sacred process. And so is your privilege of receiving personal revelation.

President Nelson Explains Origins of the Handbook Change
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