Doctrine by unanimous Q15 affirmation

[_oliblish]

I believe that President Newsroom is the one who established how to define doctrines of the church. He stated it years before Elder Anderson did.

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/approaching-mormon-doctrine

4 May 2007 - Salt Lake City

Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church. With divine inspiration, the First Presidency (the prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications. This doctrine resides in the four “standard works” of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith. Isolated statements are often taken out of context, leaving their original meaning distorted.

That doctrine resides in the standard works is an interesting idea. There are so many examples of doctrines being contradicted in the scriptures. Is the Word of Wisdom defined in D&C 89?

[_oliblish]

Brilliant analysis!

One gets the idea the point is not to designate what is doctrine so much as to designate what is not doctrine.

Without ever actually designating what is and isn't doctrine.

Sounds like a new topic for the Radio Free Mormon Podcast!

[_Kishkumen]

My awakening began with hearing some things about Joseph Smith’s polygamy and went online to prove these things wrong. I quickly learned that they were in fact the truth and then proceeded to learn about Joseph Smith and others’ polyandry, too. That was the beginning of my journey into discovering all of the church history that had been whitewashed and kept hidden from me during all of my faithful years. After this, I simply could not support an organization that demanded complete 100% honesty from me when they had and continued to be extremely dishonest in their teachings and lessons (especially regarding church history and past doctrines).

My husband, who was also extremely active and had held numerous leadership positions, felt like I did once he discovered the truth. Two of my four children have also left the church and the other two are working their way out now, too. Out of seven of my siblings (all serving missions and marrying in the temple), only one of them is still active (and they are only semi-active due to their spouse wanting to attend). All of them have left because of the dishonesty regarding church history, Book of Abraham issues, DNA problems, and other issues with the Book of Mormon.

If the church had been honest with their history and other details from their past, I would have loved learning about these as I was growing up and when I was older. It would have made the church leaders feel more human and full of integrity for me to know their faults and mistakes along with their good qualities. It would have given me hope when I also made mistakes and tried to repent. I would not have stopped attending if the church had simply been honest with me. I believe if they start doing this, they may be able to stop the hemorrhaging of some of their best, most valiant, most educated, and most hard working and devoted members. They are definitely losing some of their strongest members and this will continue because the true information is so readily available to all now. Also, this is affecting new baptism rates tremendously because no one will join a church requiring the time and money demanded by the LDS church without at least doing a Google search. Who wants to join a church that is not honest?

That's the rub. The Church makes great demands of its members, and yet it has not either come close to living up to its own standards on an organizational level, or shown much humility toward fellow laborers in Christ. The members are every bit as important as the leaders, arguably even more important than the leaders. If there are no followers, what need of leaders? And yet the stentorian declarations about authority, not apologizing, no criticisms of leaders and the like, while not necessarily driving away members immediately, will eventually become part of the calculus when the faults of the organization become glaringly apparent.

[_lemuel]

The members are every bit as important as the leaders, arguably even more important than the leaders. If there are no followers, what need of leaders?

When you have >$100B in the bank, you don't need followers anymore.

[_Servant]

Example Story from document

ANONYMOUS FEMALE: AGE 50 - 64

household income: $200,000+

education level: College Graduate

member type: Life-long member

prior to crisis: Full Tithe Payer, Regular Attendance at Sacrament Service, Temple Recommend Holder, Adherence to the Word of Wisdom callings held: Young Women’s Presidency, Young Women’s President, Relief Society Presidency, Relief Society President, Primary Presidency, Primary President, Spouse of Bishopric, Temple Worker

I was never inactive prior to learning the true church history. I was born in the covenant, faithful in my youth, attended BYU, married a returned missionary in the temple and raised my children in the church (both of my sons went on missions). I was always a full tithe payer. I never missed church and even attended when on vacations by finding the nearest church to wherever we were at the time. I held nearly every leadership position a woman can hold in the church and served faithfully.

My awakening began with hearing some things about Joseph Smith’s polygamy and went online to prove these things wrong. I quickly learned that they were in fact the truth and then proceeded to learn about Joseph Smith and others’ polyandry, too. That was the beginning of my journey into discovering all of the church history that had been whitewashed and kept hidden from me during all of my faithful years. After this, I simply could not support an organization that demanded complete 100% honesty from me when they had and continued to be extremely dishonest in their teachings and lessons (especially regarding church history and past doctrines).

My husband, who was also extremely active and had held numerous leadership positions, felt like I did once he discovered the truth. Two of my four children have also left the church and the other two are working their way out now, too. Out of seven of my siblings (all serving missions and marrying in the temple), only one of them is still active (and they are only semi-active due to their spouse wanting to attend). All of them have left because of the dishonesty regarding church history, Book of Abraham issues, DNA problems, and other issues with the Book of Mormon.

If the church had been honest with their history and other details from their past, I would have loved learning about these as I was growing up and when I was older. It would have made the church leaders feel more human and full of integrity for me to know their faults and mistakes along with their good qualities. It would have given me hope when I also made mistakes and tried to repent. I would not have stopped attending if the church had simply been honest with me. I believe if they start doing this, they may be able to stop the hemorrhaging of some of their best, most valiant, most educated, and most hard working and devoted members. They are definitely losing some of their strongest members and this will continue because the true information is so readily available to all now. Also, this is affecting new baptism rates tremendously because no one will join a church requiring the time and money demanded by the LDS church without at least doing a Google search. Who wants to join a church that is not honest?

I miss a great deal of what I had when I was an active member of the church, but the truth is very important to me. So is integrity and honesty. I will not go back unless the church leaders start implementing honest information and discussions about its past.

I appreciate your dismay and frustration in finding out the truth about Mormon history, of which I am a long time student. The truth has long been out there, just not very accessible until the Internet. Why on earth would you even consider going back to the Mormon Church? It's very foundation, which is Joseph Smith not some Mormon-only "gospel," reeks with his lies. It is rotted, and shored up by the present leadership who never would have told you the truth if it hadn't been put out there by students of Mormon history, Christian students that is, who worked very hard to expose Mormonism for what it is. A hoax!

You know, as an educated woman, you might want to consider the real Jesus Christ - not the first spirit baby born of polygamous gods on some planet near Kolob, a star that has never existed by the way. The real Jesus has nothing to do with the Mormon version, the Joseph Smith version. You will find a welcome, and spiritual home, if you just take the step to search out a truly Christian Church, where you will find the cultural things you might miss about the LDS.

Frankly this site is not very wholesome, and is mostly made up of disgruntled Mormons who now trash all religions, especially Christians, because they found out that they had been deceived by Joe Smith. There are Christian sites where you might find some input from people who love Jesus Christ and aren't out to deceive you. Just thought I'd mention that, as I feel you have been through the wringer. May the Lord lead.

[_I have a question]

Servant, which religion out there hasn’t deceived its followers?

[_Philo Sofee]

The members are every bit as important as the leaders, arguably even more important than the leaders. If there are no followers, what need of leaders?

When you have >$100B in the bank, you don't need followers anymore.

Nor do you worry about whether people believe your truth. Keep the core members who continue to drink the kool aid happy and yer set...