New Project Shows Church Finance Corruption

[MG 2.0]

How did you start this sending of money to folks you don't even know? Did someone give you a name and say, "Hey Bud, if you know what's good for you, you'll send $50 a month to this address"?

I'm serious. How did it happen?

Not sure. It’s been a number of years now that we’ve participated in this charity. I asked my wife and she doesn’t remember the particulars as to how we found out about it.

For some reason I mixed this charity up with some other Utah based charity we had read about years ago. My bad.

By the way, here are a number of Utah based charities to look at:

https://greatnonprofits.org/state/Utah

Or if you want to participate through the LDS Church:

https://philanthropies.churchofjesuschr ... manitarian&

Regards,
MG

[Morley]

Not sure. It’s been a number of years now that we’ve participated in this charity. I asked my wife and she doesn’t remember the particulars as to how we found out about it.

For some reason I mixed this charity up with some other Utah based charity we had read about years ago. My bad.

By the way, here are a number of Utah based charities to look at:

https://greatnonprofits.org/state/Utah

Or if you want to participate through the LDS Church:

https://philanthropies.churchofjesuschr ... manitarian&

Here's the link for members to contact Church headquarters to tell them what charities they think said church should contribute some portion of their $100+ billion surplus to:











Damn. It looks like there is no link. I guess they don't want member input.

[Morley]

Not sure. It’s been a number of years now that we’ve participated in this charity. I asked my wife and she doesn’t remember the particulars as to how we found out about it.

For some reason I mixed this charity up with some other Utah based charity we had read about years ago. My bad.

Maybe you just mixed up everything. Perhaps you bought ice cream with that money and just thought you were giving to charity.

[MG 2.0]

…what charities [do] you think they should contribute some portion of their $100+ billion surplus to:

I’m actually not concerned about that. The philosophical church position that welfare services has taken is, “ Give a Man a Fish, and You Feed Him for a Day. Teach a Man To Fish, and You Feed Him for a Lifetime.”

Most of the humanitarian work the church is involved in follows/adheres to that view of help/service.

Previously in this thread I’ve expressed my views as to why the church is sitting on a pile of financial reserves. And I think my views in this matter make sense. Critics simply are looking for alternatives that paint the church in a negative light because of their own personal agendas.

No big surprise there.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

Not sure. It’s been a number of years now that we’ve participated in this charity. I asked my wife and she doesn’t remember the particulars as to how we found out about it.

For some reason I mixed this charity up with some other Utah based charity we had read about years ago. My bad.

Maybe you just mixed up everything. Perhaps you bought ice cream with that money and just thought you were giving to charity.

We get a statement from WaterAid every month. Our ice cream expenditures, now that’s another matter.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

It’s a strange position they’re in.

They’ve never been more wealthy than they are now, but they’re also set to possibly lose a larger share of subsequent generations of members than perhaps ever before as well.

In our area, despite the promise of a new-and-improved post-scouting youth program, the young men's activities are required to be low cost. They've been essentially limited to firesides, "gaming nights," and random lame activities such as the "grocery store scavenger hunt." Then, expressing their desires to do something more enjoyable last week, the young men voted to do an activity at Top Golf, which would cost about $20 per boy for 8-10 young men for 2 hours. They were thrilled. The activity was approved (by the bishopric counselor in charge), then scheduled and communicated to parents. Everyone was excited about it. A few inactive youth planned to attend. But then, the bishop, acting out of hand, made them cancel the activity, stating that it was too expensive and the ward budget did not have room to cover the cost. Ouch! So much for an improved youth program post scouting. Instead, all of the youth get to be babysat by members of the bishopric every week. It's truly lame.

I'm hearing other instances of crimped budgets. As communicated from area authorities, the church is tightening its belt in order to build more temples. How interesting, as page 14 of the document shows, several budget cuts have already become evident, conveniently offsetting Nelson's temple building binge. It may be that the nickle and diming of ward budgets ultimately closes whatever gap may remain.

And then what's really disheartening is to see page 12. Such a disproportionate amount of church growth from lower-income regions, for like a generation or more. Has the church ever spent its money to support growth in those poorer regions? No, it doesn't. The church crimps every region's budgets to the lowest common denominator, in order to bank a cool $billion or so every year. There is no reason to believe that it ever will change. Arguably, leaders are flat lying about the notion that the church will one day break with tradition and just begin to run deficit spending in order to continue growing in poor countries like Africa. Newsflash: it won't. Evidence? Oh just a few decades of track record.

One has to wonder, what is the end game? A smaller church with more temples? That might be Nelson's greatest wish. The Q15 have been leaning in lately on the notion that Nephi saw a church that would be "small, because of wickedness." In other words, let's sift out the tares and get to a lighter-weight church that's more wheat-filled. In which case, what is the point of so many new temples then? They won't be utilized. It feels like just a big bet on marketing to the wheat.

I've always wondered how the real estate around the temples fit in, and I found this that addresses it somewhat:

One of the more bothersome things for me about the acceleration of temple building in these the latter days, especially the last 30 years, is the church’s property development in areas surrounding temples. Property Reserve, Inc., the Church’s property management arm, has myriad subsidiary land management firms around the world. PRPI holdings and connections are clouded and murky at best, as you can see from their website https://www.pripd.com, which has no information other than an address and phone number. PRPI is definitely growing as a business.

The Church often wants to beautify areas around the temple and does this through its property management arm and subsidiaries, so that members can “feel the Spirit.” These improvements are often through a convoluted web of those property management subsidiaries of its for-profit real estate management arm. Think City Creek Mall downtown SLC “beautification” but in areas around temples.

One of the most disturbing stories on how the church tries to “beautify” the area around a temple is in the Temple View area around the Hamilton, NZ Temple. At best it’s a misguided beautification project. At worst it’s racist gentrification. See here and here for more information on the Temple View land development conflict in the last 5 - 10 years. Here is the Church’s spin on the issue, and most recent developments (spoiler: the church won).

In my local temple area, which was built up in the last 10 years, the church purchased the surrounding land, divided the area up into home plots, and developed it at as a high-end real estate properties – i.e. expensive homes. These homes start at 1.47 times the median home value for the area and run up as high as 4.19 times the median home value for the area and averages out at 1.89 times the median value. The mission president for the area lives in a house in this area, but the home was only last sold at 1.49 the median home price to the Corporation of the Presiding Bishop. (source – local property records publicly available).

So – temple announcements give members the sense that the Church is growing, and with the 20 recent announcements it must seem like it’s growing gangbusters. The data doesn't really support significant growth, though some areas are growing. This is the case in countries in Africa; however five locations had negative growth and another 10 had less than 1% growth (not including those five). Better yet for the Church, with these announcements it gets an opportunity to boost financial position through real estate investments in the local area that support its American Christian values.

I’d be interested if anyone has additional information from the real estate end; this is extremely convoluted to look into.

https://old.reddit.com/r/Mormon/comment ... ource=link

[Morley]

We get a statement from WaterAid every month.

I'll bet.

[slskipper]

We all perennially anticipate the fall of the church as a result of revelations like this- but the sobering fact is that the active and supporting members will go to their graves without ever being aware of any of this. For them, the church is always True and that's all they need in order to function in life.

[Kishkumen]

We all perennially anticipate the fall of the church as a result of revelations like this- but the sobering fact is that the active and supporting members will go to their graves without ever being aware of any of this. For them, the church is always True and that's all they need in order to function in life.

There are worse tragedies in the world.

[Gadianton]

Thanks to Cinepro for making this handy link in 2018:

Furthermore, I want to say to you, we may not be able to reach it right away, but we expect to see the day when we will not have to ask you for one dollar of donation for any purpose, except that which you volunteer to give of your own accord, because we will have tithes sufficient in the storehouse of the Lord to pay everything that is needful for the advancement of the kingdom of God. I want to live to see that day, if the Lord will spare my life. It does not make any difference, though, so far as that is concerned, whether I live or not. That is the true policy, the true purpose of the Lord in the management of the affairs of His Church.

(Emphasis added)

https://archive.org/stream/conferencere ... 7/mode/2up

While giving to charity is great, the next generation is under greater financial pressures, and it's cruel to allow members to hang themselves with the 10% of gross interpretation. Tithing was never intended for charity; while giving it to charity is one option, the more consistent option is to reduce the burden substantially on the membership, let them catch up in their lives, and then give charity with their excess.

If members can build themselves up financially, then should the Church ever need to call upon them again with greater donations, then let's see when the time comes. I don't think that time will ever come, personally. Church growth is slowing. And just as important, as has been mentioned, the Church aims at self-sufficiency. If a local chapel or temple isn't sustainable by the local members, there is no point in doing it in the first place. To say the Church would ever need a fraction of their loot is to say the Church might one day fail drastically in their sustainability practices.

The Church should refund or give to charity a substantial portion of their ill-gotten gains, at the preference of each tithe payer.