Numbers...

[Valo]

I do not want to lie and so I am not going to make declarations I do not feel confident making just to be impressive. If I knew I was an immortal being who has lived before and is on a mission to fulfill Father-God's plan, then I would say that. However, I don't know and so I must remain open to the possibility that I am just plain wrong and diluted or whatever. I'm pretty sure I'm not but nothing is certain in this realm. The nature of this reality is uncertain.

We are going to always have to live by faith while here! I think that part is certain. We will certainly have to live by faith, narrow vision, narrow spectrum.

19 is the unbounded Father and He is not constrained. 19 is not bound by limitations.

But when God indwells a person, the intelligence of the person remains. It's like two different people. The Father is a Spirit and has a distinct voice that is different from other voices.

There are times when I am speaking under the influence of that Spirit. When that occurs it is not me, Valo speaking, but the Father. The Spirit gives me ideas and impressions but I get to choose to accept, follow, listen, obey, whatever.

Most of what I have said here has just been my thoughts based on what I've learned over time and impressions from the Spirit, so on, but most of what I have said here is just me. Some ideas Spirit gave me or spoke, but mostly just me.

God respects the agency of man. He also accepts us as we are. He has taught me to accept others and the world as it is and to realize that if something is, then it is as it should be, and if God wants change, or needs action, He will make it happen.

I have received enough information to act in faith. As I have acted in faith, the information I received has been confirmed, increasing my faith. As time and experiences progress my confidence in these ideas and actions increase because the impressions and ideas turn out to be true or they end up manifesting themselves in physical reality at which point I'd be insane to deny it. And so my confidence begins to wax strong. Yet I must remain humble meek and submissive to whatever the Lord has in store for me and accept all things as necessary steps towards my destiny.

I knew Jesus the Christ before I knew Michael Sherwin and I am a disciple of Charity and nothing has yet caused me to abandon or backtrack from that discipleship. It's only made it more real.

Part of why things are cryptic is to avoid deception and avoid being able to use words to deceive. If a person reads these words and they get nothing out of it then it is probably for the best at this time. If I share a cryptic idea where what is being said is not explicit, then the audience gets to choose what impressions they receive. That impression will come from the individual, not the external source, making the impression more reliable and useful to the person receiving it.

I understand. Thanks for explaining.

You're welcome. Thanks for playing my game!

[Valo]

"
The web is a trap
Like the spider's web is a trap for flies
Also, the lovely embroideries are worn by women as traps for men from a certain point of view

From a certain point of view
And I want to consider the web as something playful
You see there are so many ways of looking at it
And you will find that all these ways are right, but what we need is the fullness of the view
From a certain point of view
Of the view
From a certain point of view
The web is a trap
Like the spider's web is a trap for flies
Also, the lovely embroideries are worn by women as traps for men from a certain point of view
From a certain point of view
And I want to consider the web as something playful
You see there are so many ways of looking at it
And you will find that all these ways are right, but what we need is the fullness of the view
From a certain point of view
Of the view
From a certain point of view

[Chorus]
What we need is the fullness of the view
From a certain point of view
From a certain point of view
What we need is the fullness of the view
From a certain point of view
From a certain point of view
What we need is the fullness of the view
From a certain point of view
From a certain point of view
What we need is the fullness of the view
From a certain point of view
From a certain point of view

There are people for example who can see the web as a trap, and get stuck with that
There are people to whom existence is simply hateful
They see it as nothing but a ghastly mistake
The Lord really erred when he created this world
Because he arranged it in such a way that everything lives by eating something else
And what I'm doing is I'm describing a certain point of view
(From a certain point of view)
I'm not exactly philosophizing, I'm describing a point of view
You can look at life in such a way that the whole thing is this ghastly mistake
For example, there's no such thing as genuine kindness or love
Everybody is really pretending that they are loving other people in order to get some advantage from it
And indeed there's a point of view which occurs in certain forms of paranoia
Where people who don't seem to be real they are mechanisms, and you can think that out quite intensely with a good deal of intelligence
After all if you start from a good old Darwinian or Freudian basis
And see that man is a material machine, and that the consciousness of man is simply a very evolved and complicated form of chemistry
Well then these awful mechanical things, these Frankenstein's that everybody is, they come around and they say
"Well I'm alive, I'm a human being, I have a heart. I love, I hate, I have problems, I feel."
And you feel like saying
"Come off it, you're just a monster. And you put on the civilized act because really you're just a set of teeth on the end of a tube."
[Chorus]
What we need is the fullness of the view
From a certain point of view
From a certain point of view
What we need is the fullness of the view
From a certain point of view
From a certain point of view
What we need is the fullness of the view
From a certain point of view
From a certain point of view
What we need is the fullness of the view
From a certain point of view
From a certain point of view

And you've got a ganglion behind those teeth
Which you call your brain and your so alleged mind
And this thing is really basically there for two purposes
One to be cunning enough to get something to eat to put down the tube
And the other, you know what, Mr. Freud libido
And everything else you see can be construed as an elaborate subtle way of pretending that that's not really what you want to do, but you do
But you put on a great show
Now some people according to this view get mixed up, they are so repressed
That what they really want to do is to eat and to screw, they get involved in higher things that are the masks for these activities
And think that that's the real purpose of life
And then they become what's called neurotic
[Laugh]
Because they get involved in being pure camouflage
That's what’s called escaping from the facts
Not looking at life, not looking at reality correctly"

From A Certain Point of View

[Gadianton]

Part of why things are cryptic is to avoid deception and avoid being able to use words to deceive. If a person reads these words and they get nothing out of it then it is probably for the best at this time. If I share a cryptic idea where what is being said is not explicit, then the audience gets to choose what impressions they receive. That impression will come from the individual, not the external source, making the impression more reliable and useful to the person receiving it.

I think you've got that one backwards. Try this:

That impression will come from the individual, not the external source, making the impression more reliable and useful to the external source

Manipulation doesn't take a single form, but you're speaking of a technique that is quite effective. I learned about this in high school. I had a business class, and my teacher explained one day that he tries to make us do what he wants us to do not by telling us to do it, but within a dialog, using powers of suggestion such that we come up with the idea he was thinking about ourselves.

In terms of LARPing, there's another angle here. I'm sure you were taught in an English class at some point the golden rule of storytelling, "show, don't tell!" It's more effective to drop clues and let the reader put together the plot rather than just come right out and say it. The good storyteller, the person who has five people saying he's the Davidic Servant and then just doesn't deny it, is still the one in control, and an effective manipulator.

Manipulation isn't always best done subtle. There's the hard sell car dealer techniques. There's also those who take on a grandiose role and then never break character. A fellow Rumble participant of yours, Romana Didulo started making videos one day declaring herself queen of Canada. She has quite the following of absolute idiots -- people dumber even than Jordan Peterson followers -- who have done all kinds of self-destructive things in the hope they are really part of something big.

I'm not worried about your group so far. One of the things you've all got going for you is that you are coming to the table with your own superpowers, and negotiating for your place at the table. So far, it strikes me as a collaboration of equals. It's kind of like, I'll say IWP has x-ray vision if I think IWP will be willing to admit that I can bring fire from heaven. The real world sort of works this way anyway. If I want a fellow wage slave to help me with a project, I might first show interest in something they are working on. I was struck by Valo citing the Wicker Man as an authority, all while claiming to have a greater gift than the Wicker Man. This is positive. Likewise, look at how the Wicker Man told Valo, "You said it better than I could!"

Not everyone who takes the lonely prophet path is able to socialize like this. Look at Nightlion, the longest standing prophet on this forum. I like the guy, but where he's going to struggle is that he doesn't want to share. He's the prophet of this dispensation and he's here to teach, not to be taught. He's not going to negotiate and admit that anyone but him has superpowers. He even pays for commercial rental space where he houses a shrine to himself and his own achievements. At least one member of the board has visited. I totally would if I had the time one day. He tells of extreme isolation and loneliness. I think it's sad because he's really a good guy. That in part explains his failure: good people don't become cult leaders, even if that's what they want more than anything in the world. But if you've ever been around someone who literally can't talk about anything other than themselves and how great they are, Jesus, there are limits to friendship possibilities.

[Valo]

Part of why things are cryptic is to avoid deception and avoid being able to use words to deceive. If a person reads these words and they get nothing out of it then it is probably for the best at this time. If I share a cryptic idea where what is being said is not explicit, then the audience gets to choose what impressions they receive. That impression will come from the individual, not the external source, making the impression more reliable and useful to the person receiving it.

I think you've got that one backwards. Try this:

That impression will come from the individual, not the external source, making the impression more reliable and useful to the external source

Manipulation doesn't take a single form, but you're speaking of a technique that is quite effective. I learned about this in high school. I had a business class, and my teacher explained one day that he tries to make us do what he wants us to do not by telling us to do it, but within a dialog, using powers of suggestion such that we come up with the idea he was thinking about ourselves.

In terms of LARPing, there's another angle here. I'm sure you were taught in an English class at some point the golden rule of storytelling, "show, don't tell!" It's more effective to drop clues and let the reader put together the plot rather than just come right out and say it. The good storyteller, the person who has five people saying he's the Davidic Servant and then just doesn't deny it, is still the one in control, and an effective manipulator.

Manipulation isn't always best done subtle. There's the hard sell car dealer techniques. There's also those who take on a grandiose role and then never break character. A fellow Rumble participant of yours, Romana Didulo started making videos one day declaring herself queen of Canada. She has quite the following of absolute idiots -- people dumber even than Jordan Peterson followers -- who have done all kinds of self-destructive things in the hope they are really part of something big.

I'm not worried about your group so far. One of the things you've all got going for you is that you are coming to the table with your own superpowers, and negotiating for your place at the table. So far, it strikes me as a collaboration of equals. It's kind of like, I'll say IWP has x-ray vision if I think IWP will be willing to admit that I can bring fire from heaven. The real world sort of works this way anyway. If I want a fellow wage slave to help me with a project, I might first show interest in something they are working on. I was struck by Valo citing the Wicker Man as an authority, all while claiming to have a greater gift than the Wicker Man. This is positive. Likewise, look at how the Wicker Man told Valo, "You said it better than I could!"

Not everyone who takes the lonely prophet path is able to socialize like this. Look at Nightlion, the longest standing prophet on this forum. I like the guy, but where he's going to struggle is that he doesn't want to share. He's the prophet of this dispensation and he's here to teach, not to be taught. He's not going to negotiate and admit that anyone but him has superpowers. He even pays for commercial rental space where he houses a shrine to himself and his own achievements. At least one member of the board has visited. I totally would if I had the time one day. He tells of extreme isolation and loneliness. I think it's sad because he's really a good guy. That in part explains his failure: good people don't become cult leaders, even if that's what they want more than anything in the world. But if you've ever been around someone who literally can't talk about anything other than themselves and how great they are, Jesus, there are limits to friendship possibilities.

Interesting. It sounds like you know a lot about manipulation.

[Res Ipsa]

I think you've got that one backwards. Try this:

That impression will come from the individual, not the external source, making the impression more reliable and useful to the external source

Manipulation doesn't take a single form, but you're speaking of a technique that is quite effective. I learned about this in high school. I had a business class, and my teacher explained one day that he tries to make us do what he wants us to do not by telling us to do it, but within a dialog, using powers of suggestion such that we come up with the idea he was thinking about ourselves.

In terms of LARPing, there's another angle here. I'm sure you were taught in an English class at some point the golden rule of storytelling, "show, don't tell!" It's more effective to drop clues and let the reader put together the plot rather than just come right out and say it. The good storyteller, the person who has five people saying he's the Davidic Servant and then just doesn't deny it, is still the one in control, and an effective manipulator.

Manipulation isn't always best done subtle. There's the hard sell car dealer techniques. There's also those who take on a grandiose role and then never break character. A fellow Rumble participant of yours, Romana Didulo started making videos one day declaring herself queen of Canada. She has quite the following of absolute idiots -- people dumber even than Jordan Peterson followers -- who have done all kinds of self-destructive things in the hope they are really part of something big.

I'm not worried about your group so far. One of the things you've all got going for you is that you are coming to the table with your own superpowers, and negotiating for your place at the table. So far, it strikes me as a collaboration of equals. It's kind of like, I'll say IWP has x-ray vision if I think IWP will be willing to admit that I can bring fire from heaven. The real world sort of works this way anyway. If I want a fellow wage slave to help me with a project, I might first show interest in something they are working on. I was struck by Valo citing the Wicker Man as an authority, all while claiming to have a greater gift than the Wicker Man. This is positive. Likewise, look at how the Wicker Man told Valo, "You said it better than I could!"

Not everyone who takes the lonely prophet path is able to socialize like this. Look at Nightlion, the longest standing prophet on this forum. I like the guy, but where he's going to struggle is that he doesn't want to share. He's the prophet of this dispensation and he's here to teach, not to be taught. He's not going to negotiate and admit that anyone but him has superpowers. He even pays for commercial rental space where he houses a shrine to himself and his own achievements. At least one member of the board has visited. I totally would if I had the time one day. He tells of extreme isolation and loneliness. I think it's sad because he's really a good guy. That in part explains his failure: good people don't become cult leaders, even if that's what they want more than anything in the world. But if you've ever been around someone who literally can't talk about anything other than themselves and how great they are, Jesus, there are limits to friendship possibilities.

Interesting. It sounds like you know a lot about manipulation.

The only way to avoid manipulation is to study how it works. Ignorance of manipulative tactics is why even smart and sincere people are sucked into cults.

[Res Ipsa]

I think you've got that one backwards. Try this:

That impression will come from the individual, not the external source, making the impression more reliable and useful to the external source

Manipulation doesn't take a single form, but you're speaking of a technique that is quite effective. I learned about this in high school. I had a business class, and my teacher explained one day that he tries to make us do what he wants us to do not by telling us to do it, but within a dialog, using powers of suggestion such that we come up with the idea he was thinking about ourselves.

In terms of LARPing, there's another angle here. I'm sure you were taught in an English class at some point the golden rule of storytelling, "show, don't tell!" It's more effective to drop clues and let the reader put together the plot rather than just come right out and say it. The good storyteller, the person who has five people saying he's the Davidic Servant and then just doesn't deny it, is still the one in control, and an effective manipulator.

Manipulation isn't always best done subtle. There's the hard sell car dealer techniques. There's also those who take on a grandiose role and then never break character. A fellow Rumble participant of yours, Romana Didulo started making videos one day declaring herself queen of Canada. She has quite the following of absolute idiots -- people dumber even than Jordan Peterson followers -- who have done all kinds of self-destructive things in the hope they are really part of something big.

I'm not worried about your group so far. One of the things you've all got going for you is that you are coming to the table with your own superpowers, and negotiating for your place at the table. So far, it strikes me as a collaboration of equals. It's kind of like, I'll say IWP has x-ray vision if I think IWP will be willing to admit that I can bring fire from heaven. The real world sort of works this way anyway. If I want a fellow wage slave to help me with a project, I might first show interest in something they are working on. I was struck by Valo citing the Wicker Man as an authority, all while claiming to have a greater gift than the Wicker Man. This is positive. Likewise, look at how the Wicker Man told Valo, "You said it better than I could!"

Not everyone who takes the lonely prophet path is able to socialize like this. Look at Nightlion, the longest standing prophet on this forum. I like the guy, but where he's going to struggle is that he doesn't want to share. He's the prophet of this dispensation and he's here to teach, not to be taught. He's not going to negotiate and admit that anyone but him has superpowers. He even pays for commercial rental space where he houses a shrine to himself and his own achievements. At least one member of the board has visited. I totally would if I had the time one day. He tells of extreme isolation and loneliness. I think it's sad because he's really a good guy. That in part explains his failure: good people don't become cult leaders, even if that's what they want more than anything in the world. But if you've ever been around someone who literally can't talk about anything other than themselves and how great they are, Jesus, there are limits to friendship possibilities.

Interesting. It sounds like you know a lot about manipulation.

The only way to avoid manipulation is to study how it works. Ignorance of manipulative tactics is why even smart and sincere people are sucked into cults.

[Imwashingmypirate]

Interesting. It sounds like you know a lot about manipulation.

The only way to avoid manipulation is to study how it works. Ignorance of manipulative tactics is why even smart and sincere people are sucked into cults.

Where does one learn these things?

[Gadianton]

Interesting. It sounds like you know a lot about manipulation.

Let me tell you something about myself, Valo. I was born into a cult based in Salt Lake City Utah. I escaped.

So yeah, I'd like to think I've picked up on a few things.

[Res Ipsa]

The only way to avoid manipulation is to study how it works. Ignorance of manipulative tactics is why even smart and sincere people are sucked into cults.

Where does one learn these things?

I think it all comes under the general umbrella of psychology, but you can find tons of information and examples by reading articles on manipulation in abusive relationships, manipulation in cults, manipulation by con artists and scammers, manipulation by advertisers and sales people, and even manipulation by magicians.

One of the reasons so many people don't recognize manipulative techniques is that people who have been damaged by cults and con artists are embarrassed that they were fooled. The blame themselves and are often reluctant to speak out. But when they do speak out, what they have to say is very helpful in understanding how manipulation works.

Here are videos of two people who were sucked into and damaged by two cults we've discussed here: Connexions (Jodie Hildebrand) and Julie Rowe. I'd suggest starting with watching them.

https://youtu.be/z2o27AfsDv4 -- Julie Rowe

https://youtu.be/fHsERZzKj8s -- Connexions/Jodie HIldebrandt

[Valo]

Interesting. It sounds like you know a lot about manipulation.

Let me tell you something about myself, Valo. I was born into a cult based in Salt Lake City Utah. I escaped.

So yeah, I'd like to think I've picked up on a few things.

Funny you say this cause the Spirit was just telling me a bit ago you've been hurt and betrayed and that's why you act the way you do. Makes sense. You don't know anything about me and haven't taken the time to know me even though I've been open, sincere, and given you lot's of personal information about me. You can look me up, find my real name, find where I live, all of that. You can go see me make a fool of myself trying to play guiitar and sing. Im not hiding. Are you so open?

I am not afraid of anyone's judgement or perceptions of me. I don't care if you don't trust me. Not personally. I don't need nor am I seeking validation from any person, (yes that includes Michael Sherwin). I can accept myself as I am, therefore I can accept others as they are.

Word of advice. In an ambiguous situation, where you really don't know, assume the best.

Check-out Darknesstolight on LDSFF. That's an old version of me and that version probably relates to you better than this version. But keep in mind, if you do go check it out, that although I am darknesstolight, I don't think like that any more.

I told you the game I am playing and if you want to get in to ring with me and play, then follow the rules of the game. Or don't and you'll be ignored.