Personally I don’t think having a choice and having free will are the same thing. The term “free” means to me that your decision to act, or to choose, is not influenced by other influential factors. Choices are always influenced by other factors - nature, nurture, experiential, and environmental.Imwashingmypirate wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2024 8:13 pmPerhaps no true free will. But a choice is available. The consequences of the choices make them cost.I Have Questions wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2024 7:36 pmDoes the 7 year old child of Mormon parents in Utah really have a free will choice about being baptised at 8 years old?
Does the born-in-the-the church married man, with a Mormon spouse, Mormon parents, a Mormon boss at work, and a social group entirely consisting of Mormons, have a free will choice about their religious belief and in attending church?
Do people have a free will choice about their sexuality?
Do people have a free will choice about what their native language is?
Genetics, nurture, experience and environment will ensure that you don’t make any decision based on pure cognitive freedom (free will).
They could leave Utah, leave their family.
They could be disfellowshipped and frowned upon.
They could choose to stay and live with it, choosing to stay is still a choice.
The cost here is that they either live life in a way that they would rather not but have their family and friends. Old Testament they can leave and possibly risk losing those relationships.
So they have will but not free.
A person may ignore the attractions they feel and that is their choice. They may choose to explore that. Both choices are present. But they wouldn't be free to turn it off.
The cost is to be in a relationship with someone you aren't attracted to to fit in with expectations of society (although this is changing) at the cost of having a level of intimacy that would only be available when with someone you are attracted to. Or go against family, expectations, have anxiety about the difficulties that might be perceived in coming out to people. The choices are available. The person is free to make that choice but the choices come at a cost.
A person is born into their native language and they can't decide at birth to change that. But if they decide to make the choice to learn a new language, the choice is there. The free choice is lost when it comes to accessing the other language and their ability to retain and learn said language.
I don't believe in pure cognitive freedom. Even our brains and how they work limit us. A person with severe learning difficulties can't just decide to go to university with no prior education. But would it occur to that person to even consider that option? Their sense of freedom would be lost if they had the desire but no doors opened to allow them to do it.
I struggle. I find it hard to understand people's expressions, intentions and sometimes what they say. I feel limited because when I try to make conversation the anxiety I feel can make me shut down. Now I have a choice realistically to ignore that and just assume that I know what the intentions are. But I haven't worked out how to do that. I actually find it easier to understand conversations through text and email. The expressions and energy's makes me not sure about what is said. I pick up subtle changes in people's stance, and face but I can't see my own. I'm not aware of what my body looks like to others. I feel this hinders my freedom to choose in some ways because I can't control the panic and anxiety.
Edit: I didn't write old testament. Autocorrect did. I'm not going to proof read and edit this. Going to go get settled. Night
I don’t believe there exists an example of a decision a person could make that isn’t influenced by one or more of those factors. And so free will doesn’t exist. One doesn’t choose one’s birth biology. One doesn’t choose one’s birth country. So even if on day 1 of your life you have an ability to make a choice free of any existential factors, you still are bound by the inherent drive to survive. Babies don’t choose to feed because they make a free will determination.