Oaks - some commandments are temporary

[Dwight]

I can’t claim credit for this thought but I saw someone wonder about the LDS belief that you follow the prophet even if he is getting it wrong. Particularly from Ezra Benson’s 14 Fundamentals to Follow the Prophet which used quotes from Harold Lee and Eldon Tanner that all essentially said even if you know better and the prophet is wrong you will be blessed for obeying and following.

I know a psychologist that used this logic around prop 8. He knew church leaders were/are wrong about homosexuality and looks forward to when the get the memo, but he still voted and supported marriage only being between a man and a woman. Not in his professional life as a psychologist, but off the clock he submitted to the prophet.

[Moksha]

Not in his professional life as a psychologist, but off the clock he submitted to the prophet.

As a faithful member, I will submit to your mantle if you insist the moon is green cheese.

[Everybody Wang Chung]

[Jesse Pinkman]

LOL!

[Jesse Pinkman]

The mind games continue. Mormons not only have to decide if the prophet is speaking as a man, but now have to decide if the commandments are permanent or just temporary.

We are witnessing the creation of new doctrine, although who knows if this is permanent or just temporary doctrine. Maybe wearing garments is a temporary commandment? Maybe the word of wisdom is a temporary commandment? Maybe tithing is just a temporary commandment? Who in the freak knows anymore.

It sure looks like the Church is trying to excuse past behavior and give themselves a free pass (Polygamy and the Priesthood Ban were just temporary commandments). This is the Church's get out of jail free card for any horrible behavior- past present and future.

Exactly. This is the Church trying to negate the whole “speaking as a man” use case because it has become too problematic. Now, everything the Q15 spews is from the Lord, just divided into “temporary” and “permanent” commandments.

[Dr. Sunstoned]

The "temporary commandment" thing is the get out of jail card to the current crop of GAs. Now they are not beholden to any teachings from past prophets.

[I Have Questions]

I can’t claim credit for this thought but I saw someone wonder about the LDS belief that you follow the prophet even if he is getting it wrong. Particularly from Ezra Benson’s 14 Fundamentals to Follow the Prophet which used quotes from Harold Lee and Eldon Tanner that all essentially said even if you know better and the prophet is wrong you will be blessed for obeying and following.

I know a psychologist that used this logic around prop 8. He knew church leaders were/are wrong about homosexuality and looks forward to when the get the memo, but he still voted and supported marriage only being between a man and a woman. Not in his professional life as a psychologist, but off the clock he submitted to the prophet.

President Marion G. Romney tells of this incident which happened to him:

“I remember years ago when I was a bishop I had President Heber J. Grant talk to our ward. After the meeting I drove him home. … Standing by me, he put his arm over my shoulder and said: ‘My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.’ Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, ‘But you don’t need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray.’” (Conference Report, October 1960, p. 78.)20

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... ng=eng#p39

Mormons and current leaders will go to great lengths to protest the idea that members treat the Brethren as infallible. But the above quote shows they say that with a wink and a nudge. What Oaks is trying to do, as has been pointed out, is to position those mistakes under a cloak of “temporary commandment” and so further promote the notion that Church leaders are beyond reproach and infallible.

[malkie]

I can’t claim credit for this thought but I saw someone wonder about the LDS belief that you follow the prophet even if he is getting it wrong. Particularly from Ezra Benson’s 14 Fundamentals to Follow the Prophet which used quotes from Harold Lee and Eldon Tanner that all essentially said even if you know better and the prophet is wrong you will be blessed for obeying and following.

I know a psychologist that used this logic around prop 8. He knew church leaders were/are wrong about homosexuality and looks forward to when the get the memo, but he still voted and supported marriage only being between a man and a woman. Not in his professional life as a psychologist, but off the clock he submitted to the prophet.

President Marion G. Romney tells of this incident which happened to him:

“I remember years ago when I was a bishop I had President Heber J. Grant talk to our ward. After the meeting I drove him home. ... Standing by me, he put his arm over my shoulder and said: ‘My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.’ Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, ‘But you don’t need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray.’” (Conference Report, October 1960, p. 78.)20

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... ng=eng#p39

Mormons and current leaders will go to great lengths to protest the idea that members treat the Brethren as infallible. But the above quote shows they say that with a wink and a nudge. What Oaks is trying to do, as has been pointed out, is to position those mistakes under a cloak of “temporary commandment” and so further promote the notion that Church leaders are beyond reproach and infallible.

Hold up a minute, youngster!

I thought it was "speaking as a man" that pulled the stealth covering over leaders' errors.

[I Have Questions]

Hold up a minute, youngster!

I thought it was "speaking as a man" that pulled the stealth covering over leaders' errors.

That’s certainly the Get Out Of Jail Free card that’s been played in the past when Church Leaders have been found in error. Oaks is talking about when doctrines and instructions change rather than simply about when somebody somewhere says something that becomes embarrassing. Perhaps he’s paving the way for a significant change. Planting the seed with the members that some things that are deemed “commandments” can be temporary, for a season.

He may have just been trying to douse the flames generated by “porn shoulders” now being okay if it’s warm. Or maybe there’s some other significant backtracking coming down the pipe…

[2bizE]

Hold up a minute, youngster!

I thought it was "speaking as a man" that pulled the stealth covering over leaders' errors.

That’s certainly the Get Out Of Jail Free card that’s been played in the past when Church Leaders have been found in error. Oaks is talking about when doctrines and instructions change rather than simply about when somebody somewhere says something that becomes embarrassing. Perhaps he’s paving the way for a significant change. Planting the seed with the members that some things that are deemed “commandments” can be temporary, for a season.

He may have just been trying to douse the flames generated by “porn shoulders” now being okay if it’s warm. Or maybe there’s some other significant backtracking coming down the pipe…

I agree that Oaks is up to something. He loved to plan and connive like the Grinch who stole Christmas.
It could be to eliminate revelations such as DC 132. Or perhaps to pass his beloved Proclamation on the Family into a permanent commandment status. Something to sock it to the gays.