The non-coin coin system of the Book of Mormon. Scam?

[Gabriel]

It's regrettable that Mormon edited out the part where the accused debtors were dragged to the cell door marked: SENINES ONLY PLEASE!

You'd think a debtors' prison would require full payment and surely there were judgments having fractional values as part of the total amount due. Mormon Jesus Joseph Smith did not take that into consideration. The whole purpose of what Jewish Jesus said at Jerusalem was to remind everyone that every bit of debt must be accounted for, even the tiniest amount. But Joseph Smith didn't take that into consideration when he popped off one of the names of his Nephite coins when copying text out of the King James Version of the Bible.

Red flag! Wouldn't you say?

Yes, Shulem, especially when you consider that a senine was one day’s wage for a judge, and that it must have been a generous amount. After all, Judge Zeezrom had 6 Ontis of silver with which he tried to bribe Amalek. That’s a lot of disposable income (42 days’ worth of wages to be exact). Although one can’t exclude the probability that Judge Zeezrom augmented his income with the taking of bribes, I think it’s safe to assume that most of the Nephite population would have been making far less than one senine per day. So, yes, in addition to copying the KJV, Joseph should have consulted his table of Nephite money values, as well.

[Shulem]

Shulem, if you wouldn't mind taking a crack at this one form above:

You guys have delved into the judges and the description of how debtors were handled who didn't pay their debts. It's drastic. Stripped naked and cast out of the community for non-payment? Something tells me that Joseph Smith wasn't sporting an 850 credit score. Why was he so fascinated with this hardline policy?

Debtors' prisons were very much an American institution during Joseph's life, especially leading up to adulthood, and even the state of New York didn't discontinue them until 1832, the same year federal law eliminated prisons and left it to the states. Surely he heard many a story about those who suffered incarceration in such prisons and who knows what thoughts and images went through his mind as he processed such unfortunate events? Debtors' prisons weren't abolished in his home state of Vermont until 1830 and we know the Smith family had severe money and debt problems while living there prior to relocating to New York. It seems unlikely the Smiths left Vermont with a good credit score and whereafter they struggled to make ends meet while farming in New York.

It's only natural to think that Smith incorporated strict penalties from stories of imprisonment as told in the Bible into the Book of Mormon in order to make everything seem compatible or historically similar in nature. We know from the record that Joseph Smith was a biblical literalist so it makes perfect sense that he applied many of the harsh practices mentioned therein to his own stories (recitals) which he began to tell as a youth at family gatherings. Thus we can conclude that Joseph Smith was telling stories of Book of Mormon prisons long before he ever claimed to obtain the plates. And that idea is another red flag.

[Shulem]

Although one can’t exclude the probability that Judge Zeezrom augmented his income with the taking of bribes, I think it’s safe to assume that most of the Nephite population would have been making far less than one senine per day. So, yes, in addition to copying the KJV, Joseph should have consulted his table of Nephite money values, as well.

We learn the value of the Nephite monetary system in Alma 11 during 82 B.C., which is only 50 115 years from the time Mormon Jesus gave his sermon at Bountiful. Jesus came down and related information about those at Jerusalem:

For I perceive that ye desire that I should show unto you what I have done unto your brethren at Jerusalem, for I see that your faith is sufficient that I should heal you.

Now, imagine the shock the poor Nephites must have experienced to learn that Jews had to cough up the value of every senine if they expected to get out of a Jerusalem prison! Jesus set the senine as the bar (bottom line) and in order to obtain freedom one must pay a large amount of money to produce the senines required, leading up to the "uttermost senine!"

So, the Nephites must have supposed that nobody could get out of a Jerusalem prison unless they were very well to do and had the income of a judge.

I think it's pretty clear that Joseph Smith dropped the ball on this one, wouldn't you say?

[Shulem]

Song by Frank Sinatra

Three coins in the fountain
Each one seeking happiness
Thrown by three hopeful lovers
Which one will the fountain bless?

Three hearts in the fountain
Each heart longing for its home
There they lie in the fountain
Somewhere in the heart of Rome

Which one will the fountain bless?
Which one will the fountain bless?

Three coins in the fountain
Through the ripples how they shine
Just one wish will be granted
One heart will wear a valentine

Make it mine
Make it mine
Make it mine

Three coins in the fountain
Through the ripples how they shine
And just one wish will be granted
One heart will wear a valentine

Make it mine
Make it mine
Make it mine

[Gadianton]

I was not aware of the debtors prisons in Smith's day. Pretty fascinating.

[consiglieri]

Fascinating stuff everyone!

A measure of barley for a day’s work as a judge?

Hard times.

[Moksha]

Perhaps Church leaders were bullied into hiding the coin by the Mopologists? If the coin was found in Georgia, that would seem to point to a Heartland Theory of the Book of Mormon's location....

The Nephite coin could fetch considerable money at Christie's Auction House. This money could earn a hefty amount if invested with Ensign Peak

First, have the Nephite coin authenticated by Ward Radio. The authenticators would be Cardon Ellis, Neal Rappleye, and Jasmine Rappleye.

Have it be purchased by a wealthy Mormon. Bind the purchaser to an eternal agreement never to let a gentile coin expert inspect the coin.

[Shulem]

Fascinating stuff everyone!

A measure of barley for a day’s work as a judge?

Hard times.

Bear in mind a senine was one (1) full measure of grain which leads me to think it was a kind of standard or base measure compared to fractional measures:

Senine = 1
Shiblon = 1/2
Shiblum = 1/4
Leah = 1/8

So, a well paid judge got a full measure of grain for a day's pay but the poor working guy must have settled for a measly leah or maybe a shiblum if he was fortunate.

Now, the Bible (Ex 16:36) tells us "an omer is the tenth part of an ephah," and you will recall it was this measure in which Aaron filled the pot of manna at the tabernacle as a perpetual memorial in remembrance of how the children of Israel were miraculously fed. I get the idea that an omer was capable of feeding an entire family as the family head was to collect the omer of manna: "This is the thing which the LORD hath commanded, Gather of it every man according to his eating, an omer for every man, according to the number of your persons; take ye every man for them which are in his tents."

So, did Joseph Smith liken his senine to that of an omer? According to Wikipedia, "the omer equal to about 3.64 L (0.96 US gal); "the Jewish Study Bible (2014), however, places the omer at about 2.3 L (0.61 US gal)." Wikipedia also says: "In traditional Jewish standards of measurement, the omer was equivalent to the volume of 43.2 chicken's eggs."

These may serve as clues into Joseph Smith's thinking process in creating Nephite values which were said to have been altered or were not after the manner of the Jews; and this would provide means for Smith to make things up without the fear of screwing things up about things he was unsure of.