The artificial intelligence MEGATHREAD

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
User avatar
malkie
God
Posts: 1682
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:41 pm

Re: Created???

Post by malkie »

Rivendale wrote:
Fri May 16, 2025 10:02 pm
Extremely frustrating that you gish gallop A.I. talking points. Pick one and have a human to human coversation.
Do we perhaps need another forum, perhaps as a split off this one, so that A.I.-generated and human thought-out comments are kept separate?

If you can't beat them ... [edited for format only, apart from fixing one trivial grammar error - I have made no substantive changes to the "malkie - ChatGPT" conversation]
malkie to ChatGPT wrote:I participate in a Mormonism-related discussion group.

Some participants respond to questions and comments by feeding them into a LLM such as yourself, and posting the results.

Others - most, in fact - respond with their own arguments, thoughts and musings.

Can you please suggest some pros and cons of having separate threads, or separate forums, for LLM-generated posts and comments vs. human-generated ones?
ChatGPT {1} wrote:That’s a thoughtful and timely question, especially as A.I. tools like me become increasingly integrated into online discussions. Separating LLM-generated content from human-generated posts can significantly affect the tone, quality, and dynamics of a discussion group — especially one centered on something as complex and deeply personal as religion. Here's a balanced breakdown of the **pros and cons** of separating the two types of content into different threads or forums:

**Pros of Separating LLM-Generated and Human-Generated Posts**

1. **Transparency and Trust**

* **Pro:** It helps users know who or what they are engaging with. This can build trust and clarity, especially when discussing nuanced, doctrinal, or experiential topics.
* **Example:** Someone may be more open to personal stories or faith experiences if they know they come from a real person rather than a machine.

2. **Preservation of Community Voice**

* **Pro:** Keeping human voices in a dedicated space can preserve the unique personality, humor, and emotional resonance that people bring — elements LLMs can approximate but not fully embody.
* **Use Case:** Devotional musings, personal testimonies, or speculative theological reflections may feel more authentic in a human-only space.

3. **Clarity of Purpose**

* **Pro:** A separate A.I. thread can serve as a reference library of synthesized, fact-checked, or comparative content without disrupting organic conversation.
* **Example:** An “LLM thread” could gather doctrinal overviews, historical summaries, or side-by-side comparisons of LDS views with other traditions.

4. **Avoids A.I. “Flooding” the Conversation**

* **Pro:** A.I. can generate content rapidly and in volume. A separate thread prevents A.I.-generated responses from crowding out human participants or inadvertently dominating the discourse.
ChatGPT {2} wrote: **Cons of Separating LLM-Generated and Human-Generated Posts**

1. **Fragmentation of the Discussion**

* **Con:** Splitting threads can break the natural flow of conversation. If someone posts a question, and answers are split between two places, meaningful dialogue might suffer.
* **Example:** A follow-up question might lose its context if the original discussion is bifurcated.

2. **Discourages Integration**

* **Con:** A.I. can be a useful tool for augmenting human thinking. By forcing a separation, users might miss opportunities to build on A.I. input with human reflection (or vice versa).
* **Missed Opportunity:** A human might have a more insightful take when reacting to an A.I.-summarized scripture commentary.

3. **Creates a Second-Class Status (or the Opposite)**

* **Con:** Either A.I. or human content could be seen as “lesser.” Some users might over-rely on LLMs, while others might dismiss their value altogether — especially if separated by design.

4. **Policing Becomes an Issue**

* **Con:** If posts aren’t clearly labeled, moderators or users may need to verify what's A.I.-generated, which adds administrative burden and potential conflict.
* **Example:** A user could copy-paste A.I. content into the human thread without attribution, undermining the separation principle.
ChatGPT {3} wrote: **Middle Ground Options (Hybrid Approaches)**

If you’re considering implementation or want to suggest changes, here are some **alternatives** that balance the pros and cons:

1. **Labeling Instead of Separating:**

* Encourage users to tag LLM-assisted content (e.g., `[A.I.-assisted]`) while keeping all posts in one thread.

2. **Dedicated A.I. Help Thread or Bot Channel:**

* Have a single thread or “resource hub” where people can request and post A.I.-generated summaries or comparisons.

3. **Guidelines for Attribution:**

* Ask that users clearly mark when content is generated or heavily informed by an A.I. tool.

4. **Encourage Blending with Commentary:**

* Let users post LLM outputs but include their own reflections, responses, or critiques alongside them.
ChatGPT {4} wrote: ## Final Thought

The best approach often depends on the goals of the group: Is it primarily for debate? Learning? Fellowship? If the group values personal experience and interpersonal dialogue, keeping a strong human element front and center — with A.I. as a support — often makes the most sense.

Would you like a short summary you could post to the group to spark discussion?
malkie wrote:yes, please!

by the way, the participants have pretty much identified their postings as either their own, or A.I.-generated, and usually include the prompt that they have used.
ChatGPT wrote: Great — that level of transparency already puts your group ahead of the curve. Here’s a concise summary you could post to spark thoughtful discussion about whether to separate human and A.I.-generated content into different threads or forums:
Discussion Prompt: Should We Separate A.I.-Generated and Human-Generated Posts?

As A.I. tools like ChatGPT become more common in our group, some of us have been wondering: Would it help to separate A.I.-generated content into its own thread or forum?

Potential Benefits of Separation:
  • Clarity & Transparency: It’s easier to know whether you’re responding to a person or a tool.
  • Preserves Personal Voice: Human responses often carry emotion, experience, and personal insight that A.I. can’t fully replicate.
  • Avoids A.I. Overload: Prevents threads from being dominated by long, rapid-fire A.I. answers.
  • Organized Reference Material: A.I. content (e.g. doctrinal summaries, historical overviews) could be archived in one place for easy lookup.
Potential Downsides:
  • Fragmented Discussion: It might split conversation across multiple threads, reducing engagement.
  • Missed Integration: A.I. and human insights can complement each other when blended thoughtfully.
  • Unequal Value Perception: Separation might unintentionally suggest that one type of input is more legitimate than the other.
  • Extra Moderation: It could be hard to enforce the separation without extra rules or oversight.
We’ve already been good about labeling A.I. content and including prompts, which helps a lot. The question is: Should we go further?

Would love to hear your thoughts — especially on what would best support learning, respectful debate, and community-building.
ChatGPT wrote:Let me know if you'd like to tailor this for a specific tone (e.g. more casual, scholarly, or faith-oriented).
You can help Ukraine by talking for an hour a week!! PM me, or check www.enginprogram.org for details.
Слава Україні!, 𝑺𝒍𝒂𝒗𝒂 𝑼𝒌𝒓𝒂𝒊𝒏𝒊!
User avatar
malkie
God
Posts: 1682
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:41 pm

Re: Created???

Post by malkie »

Off topic - well sort of.

I've never made a lot of use of AIs, and found myself fascinated by what would pass for perceptiveness in a human. I made a reference to something I did 45 years ago while working for a bank, and it responded with an interest in "hearing" more about personal experiences with using mainframe computers.

Who knows, I might find that ChatGPT takes up so much of my time & bandwidth in the future that I'll be MIA from here!
You can help Ukraine by talking for an hour a week!! PM me, or check www.enginprogram.org for details.
Слава Україні!, 𝑺𝒍𝒂𝒗𝒂 𝑼𝒌𝒓𝒂𝒊𝒏𝒊!
User avatar
Gadianton
God
Posts: 5425
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:56 pm
Location: Elsewhere

Re: Summer Reading Thread

Post by Gadianton »

To my friend deepseek:

explain why the book "the language of god" by francis collins fails:

The Language of God by Francis Collins is a well-known book that argues for the compatibility of science and faith, particularly from the perspective of a prominent scientist who is also a Christian. However, the book has faced criticism from both scientific and theological perspectives. Here are some of the key reasons why it can be considered a failure in its arguments:

1. Misrepresentation of the Conflict Between Science and Religion
Collins presents the relationship between science and religion as inherently harmonious, suggesting that belief in God and acceptance of evolution (through his concept of BioLogos) are easily reconcilable. However, this ignores:

The historical and ongoing conflicts between scientific discoveries (e.g., evolution, cosmology) and religious doctrines.

The fact that many religious traditions (including conservative Christianity) explicitly reject evolution or require non-literal interpretations of scripture to accommodate it.

The problem of theodicy—how a benevolent, all-powerful God could permit natural suffering through evolutionary processes (e.g., predation, disease, extinction).

2. The Moral Law Argument is Weak
Collins argues that the existence of a universal "Moral Law" (a sense of right and wrong) points to God. This is problematic because:

Evolutionary psychology and anthropology provide naturalistic explanations for moral behavior (e.g., reciprocal altruism, group selection).

Moral intuitions vary across cultures, undermining the idea of a universal, God-given morality.

Secular ethical systems (e.g., utilitarianism, humanism) function without invoking divine authority.

3. Reliance on Personal Experience and Subjective Faith
Much of Collins' argument hinges on his personal journey to faith, including an emotional response to a frozen waterfall, which he interprets as a sign of God. This is unconvincing because:

Subjective experiences are not evidence; they can be explained by psychology (e.g., pattern-seeking, emotional bias).

Many people have equally profound experiences without concluding that the Christian God exists.

4. The "God of the Gaps" Problem
While Collins rejects "God of the gaps" reasoning in some areas, he falls into it in others, such as:

Claiming that the fine-tuning of the universe requires a designer (ignoring multiverse theories or the possibility of a deeper natural explanation).

Suggesting that the origin of life (abiogenesis) is so improbable that divine intervention is plausible—a classic "gap" argument.

5. Ignoring Alternative Views (Atheism, Deism, Pantheism)
Collins frames the debate as if the only reasonable options are materialistic atheism or Christian theism, neglecting:

Deism (a non-intervening creator, which would make prayer and miracles irrelevant).

Pantheism / Panentheism (God as the universe itself, not a personal being).

Non-Christian religious views that also claim compatibility with science (e.g., Buddhism, Unitarian Universalism).

6. Theological Problems with Evolution + Christianity
Collins tries to merge Darwinian evolution with Christianity, but this raises serious theological issues:

If humans evolved from earlier species, when did they acquire a soul?

How does original sin fit with gradual evolution?

If evolution is driven by natural selection (suffering, death, extinction), how does this align with a loving God?

7. Dismissal of Atheist Intellectuals
Collins tends to portray atheism as a purely emotional or rebellious stance (citing his own past as a "obnoxious atheist"), while ignoring well-reasoned critiques from philosophers like Bertrand Russell, Daniel Dennett, or Sam Harris.

Conclusion
While The Language of God is an earnest attempt to reconcile science and faith, it fails because:

It downplays genuine conflicts between science and religion.

It relies on weak philosophical arguments (moral law, fine-tuning).

It does not adequately address alternative viewpoints.

It glosses over theological problems raised by evolution.

For skeptics, the book feels like an apologetic exercise rather than a rigorous synthesis of science and faith. For conservative believers, it may seem like an unbiblical compromise. Thus, it satisfies neither side convincingly.


Might want to try again with your book recommendations MG. ;) nothing of value here.
Social distancing has likely already begun to flatten the curve...Continue to research good antivirals and vaccine candidates. Make everyone wear masks. -- J.D. Vance
MG 2.0
God
Posts: 5424
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:45 pm

Re: Created???

Post by MG 2.0 »

malkie wrote:
Sat May 17, 2025 1:20 am
Off topic - well sort of.

I've never made a lot of use of AIs, and found myself fascinated by what would pass for perceptiveness in a human. I made a reference to something I did 45 years ago while working for a bank, and it responded with an interest in "hearing" more about personal experiences with using mainframe computers.

Who knows, I might find that ChatGPT takes up so much of my time & bandwidth in the future that I'll be MIA from here!
Ha!!
Seriously though, I argue that more information/insight is ALWAYS the better course. Shutting down information, even if gathered electronically, lessens the discussion. One can always add their own thoughts to the quote from an A.I.

I, for one, try and do so if I can see that it will add to the discussion.

As I've said, A.I. search saves so much time...it's ridiculous. Responding to some posts using A I. allows information to be shared that would not see the light of day otherwise.

Granted, there are those that may not be supportive of more information and would rather have less exposure to the 'other side'.

Regards,
MG
MG 2.0
God
Posts: 5424
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:45 pm

Re: Summer Reading Thread

Post by MG 2.0 »

Why Francis Collins' book succeeds:
Prompt: explain why the book "the language of god" by francis collins succeeds.

Why "The Language of God" by Francis Collins Succeeds.

Bridges Science and Faith

Collins, a leading geneticist and head of the Human Genome Project, uses his scientific authority to argue that science and faith are not mutually exclusive, but can complement each other. This middle-ground approach appeals to readers who feel caught between religious literalism and scientific atheism.

Personal Journey and Accessibility

The book’s success is partly due to Collins’s compelling personal narrative: raised in a secular home, he became a Christian after grappling with questions of meaning and morality, influenced by thinkers like C.S. Lewis. His story is relatable and makes complex topics approachable for a general audience.

Clear Communication of Complex Ideas

Collins excels at translating intricate scientific concepts-such as genetics and evolutionary theory-into language non-scientists can understand, making the book accessible and engaging.

Rejects Extremes, Offers a "Third Way"

Rather than siding with atheism, creationism, or Intelligent Design, Collins proposes "BioLogos" (theistic evolution), arguing that God uses evolution as a creative tool. This reconciliatory stance resonates with readers seeking harmony between faith and modern science.

Addresses Moral and Philosophical Questions

Collins’s argument for a universal Moral Law as evidence for God gives the book philosophical depth, inviting readers to consider not just scientific facts but also questions of meaning and ethics.

Influence and Legacy

The book’s impact is amplified by Collins’s reputation and the ongoing relevance of its themes, especially for those wrestling with the perceived conflict between science and religion.

In summary, "The Language of God" succeeds because it offers a credible, personal, and accessible case for the compatibility of science and faith, providing reassurance and intellectual tools to readers navigating these often polarized realms.
Thanks gadianton for adding more information into the discussion. More is always better.

I suppose others here are now able to determine whether or not this would make a good summer read.

We probably ought to go back 'on topic'.

Regards,
MG
MG 2.0
God
Posts: 5424
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:45 pm

Re: Created???

Post by MG 2.0 »

Gadianton wrote:
Fri May 16, 2025 11:01 pm
someone could flag MG's post for being off topic since Perplexity A.I. failed to do what the prompt asked of it and instead, stated a list of common arguments against God that mostly don't have anything to do with the OP.

Because MG didn't read the OP, he wouldn't know his A.I. failed to deliver.

In fact, I'll go ahead and report MGs post.
I did read it. Read my other post earlier in the thread. By the way, I hope the moderators look carefully at how appropriate use of A.I. can only add to the discussion rather than take away.

Some folks want less information rather than more.

Regards,
MG
User avatar
malkie
God
Posts: 1682
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:41 pm

Re: Created???

Post by malkie »

Is "more information" always better?

Depends a lot on the quality, no?
You can help Ukraine by talking for an hour a week!! PM me, or check www.enginprogram.org for details.
Слава Україні!, 𝑺𝒍𝒂𝒗𝒂 𝑼𝒌𝒓𝒂𝒊𝒏𝒊!
User avatar
Moksha
God
Posts: 7848
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:13 am
Location: Koloburbia

Re: Created???

Post by Moksha »

Gadianton wrote:
Fri May 16, 2025 11:01 pm
someone could flag MG's post for being off topic since Perplexity A.I. failed to do what the prompt asked of it and instead, stated a list of common arguments against God that mostly don't have anything to do with the OP.

Because MG didn't read the OP, he wouldn't know his A.I. failed to deliver.

In fact, I'll go ahead and report MGs post.
He could have strung together some unrelated Book of Mormon Devil Name quotes like the Saints used to do.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
User avatar
sock puppet
1st Quorum of 70
Posts: 749
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:29 pm

Re: Summer Reading Thread

Post by sock puppet »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Sat May 17, 2025 1:56 am
Why Francis Collins' book succeeds:
Prompt: explain why the book "the language of god" by francis collins succeeds.

Why "The Language of God" by Francis Collins Succeeds.

Bridges Science and Faith

Collins, a leading geneticist and head of the Human Genome Project, uses his scientific authority to argue that science and faith are not mutually exclusive, but can complement each other. This middle-ground approach appeals to readers who feel caught between religious literalism and scientific atheism.

Personal Journey and Accessibility

The book’s success is partly due to Collins’s compelling personal narrative: raised in a secular home, he became a Christian after grappling with questions of meaning and morality, influenced by thinkers like C.S. Lewis. His story is relatable and makes complex topics approachable for a general audience.

Clear Communication of Complex Ideas

Collins excels at translating intricate scientific concepts-such as genetics and evolutionary theory-into language non-scientists can understand, making the book accessible and engaging.

Rejects Extremes, Offers a "Third Way"

Rather than siding with atheism, creationism, or Intelligent Design, Collins proposes "BioLogos" (theistic evolution), arguing that God uses evolution as a creative tool. This reconciliatory stance resonates with readers seeking harmony between faith and modern science.

Addresses Moral and Philosophical Questions

Collins’s argument for a universal Moral Law as evidence for God gives the book philosophical depth, inviting readers to consider not just scientific facts but also questions of meaning and ethics.

Influence and Legacy

The book’s impact is amplified by Collins’s reputation and the ongoing relevance of its themes, especially for those wrestling with the perceived conflict between science and religion.

In summary, "The Language of God" succeeds because it offers a credible, personal, and accessible case for the compatibility of science and faith, providing reassurance and intellectual tools to readers navigating these often polarized realms.
Thanks gadianton for adding more information into the discussion. More is always better.

I suppose others here are now able to determine whether or not this would make a good summer read.

We probably ought to go back 'on topic'.

Regards,
MG
Why don't you just change your moniker from MG 2.0 to A.I. 1.0?
"Only the atheist realizes how morally objectionable it is for survivors of catastrophe to believe themselves spared by a loving god, while this same God drowned infants in their cribs." Sam Harris
User avatar
malkie
God
Posts: 1682
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:41 pm

Re: Summer Reading Thread

Post by malkie »

More information á la Gad is better.

in my opinion, some other varieties, perhaps not so much.
You can help Ukraine by talking for an hour a week!! PM me, or check www.enginprogram.org for details.
Слава Україні!, 𝑺𝒍𝒂𝒗𝒂 𝑼𝒌𝒓𝒂𝒊𝒏𝒊!
Post Reply