#GiveThanks for Mopologetics: DCP Ridicules Others' "Silly" Beliefs

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Doctor Scratch
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#GiveThanks for Mopologetics: DCP Ridicules Others' "Silly" Beliefs

Post by Doctor Scratch »

I'm sure that many of you have seen the rather dumb news tidbit that's been circulating about the weird metal "monolith" that was found out in the middle of nowhere in the Utah desert. Comparisons have been made to the eerie black monolith from 2001: A Space Odyssey, for example. Is this really newsworthy, I wonder? I guess so. In much the same way that the Virgin Mary appearing on a piece of toast is "newsworthy." So, it shouldn't come as much of a surprise that the appearance of the monolith--not unlike the appearance of the similar monolith in Kubrick's film--has led to Dr. Peterson going on the warpath.

On the surface, the blog entry would appear to be an extended attack on Gemli: "How stupid it is to ever assume that there is 'intelligent design' behind unexplained phenomena!" But in the process, he shows his true colors:
Daniel Peterson wrote:What puzzles me about it is how everybody, seeing it, immediately leaps to the conclusion that the mysterious object was created and put in place by an intelligent agent, by either a prankster or an alien. (One person suggests that it’s the grave marker for Jimmy Hoffa. Others have proposed that hundreds of thousands of Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Georgia ballots marked for Mr. Donald J. Trump have been concealed in it by Dominion, working together with Georgia’s governor Brian Kemp, the CIA, George Soros, and the specter of Hugo Chavez.)
Quite dismissive, no? Should we be "puzzled" at the fact that all Mopologists, when considering the Book of Mormon, assume that it basically came from God? In all seriousness: why is belief in a historical Book of Mormon any more or less "puzzling" than assuming that this is "the grave marker for Jimmy Hoffa"? Why is one more worthy of ridicule than the other?

But Dr. Peterson continues:
Some have contended that it can’t be very old, because metal objects in the desert Southwest of the United States very quickly grow bullet holes, while the surfaces of this monolith appear to bequite smooth. But I don’t find that argument conclusive. We don’t yet know of what metal the object is made. It could, for example, be composed of unobtainium, and we don’t know whether unobtainium develops bullet holes in the same way that conventional earthly metals do.

But why posit an intelligent agent as the force behind the monolith? How often has an intelligent agent proven to be the explanation for much of anything in the thousands of acres of wilderness that surround it?

Isn’t it more likely that it’s just an outcropping of metallic ore that has been left standing after the less resistant sand stone around it has eroded away? If you look at photographs of it, it’s plainly located in a little hollow that has been . . . well, hollowed out.
Well, how far away is the Colorado River, and how much of the "thousands of acres of wilderness" were altered by humans' interfering with the course of that river? And, isn't it possible that Joseph Smith cobbled the Book of Mormon together out of other sources that he'd read? I guess that's every bit as ridiculous as this "unobtanium" example, no?

But the true Dr. Peterson--the true Mopologist: i.e., the public bootlick of Russell Nelson, doing exactly as the Prophet commands by adding the #GiveThanks hashtag to a post each day (not this post, though--rather tellingly: no mockery in the name of the Prophet, after all! Well, sort of... there is FARMS and 'Mormon Interpreter' to bear in mind, after all....), rears his head in this passage:
Imagining that intelligent beings did this — for what earthly purpose? — is just as silly as the widespread notion that somebody named Gutzon Borglum was responsible for creating the four seemingly anthropoid “faces” on South Dakota’s Mount Rushmore.
Yep: naturalistic explanations are just *so* silly! Or, rather, people believing in "dumb" things deserve to be ridiculed. Like I said at the outset, this was meant to be a jab at Gemli, but it backfires in spectacular fashion. Instead of the "lighthearted ribbing" that Peterson is intending, what this instead comes across as is gross hypocrisy, and very deep, condescending disdain for people who look to find supernatural explanations in anomalous phenomena. I mean, "Ha ha ha! Jimmy Hoffa's grave! What a bunch of dumb idiots!" Except that Dr. Peterson believes that there were real Nephites and Lamanites who lived in the Yucatan, without a lick of evidence--not even so much as a monolith! And shall we even bother to touch upon the matter of the witnesses? How many people have borne witness to the reality of aliens? How seriously should we take them?

In any case, I'm glad to #GiveThanks for the endless entertainment value that the Mopologists continue to provide. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!
"If, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
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Re: #GiveThanks for Mopologetics: DCP Ridicules Others' "Silly" Beliefs

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Did Mr. Peterson just riff off of Dr. with’s unobtanium joke? Huh. You can leave this forum, but I guess you can’t leave it alone, no?

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Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Re: #GiveThanks for Mopologetics: DCP Ridicules Others' "Silly" Beliefs

Post by Moksha »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:01 am
Did Mr. Peterson just riff off of Dr. with’s unobtanium...
- Doc
On the Periodic Chart, Unobtanium is right next to Improbabilium, which was the metal the seemingly golden plates of the Nephites were composed of. One of the properties of Improbabilium is that it can only be possessed as long as no one is trying to make a profit off of it.

Has anyone tried communicating with this monolith in Early Modern English?
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Re: #GiveThanks for Mopologetics: DCP Ridicules Others' "Silly" Beliefs

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

It’s weird Mr. Peterson was so speculative with regard to a clearly manmade piece of art. I mean, it has grommets rivets.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=you ... OKtggGLmBc

That’s a dude who makes a close up video of the art.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Re: #GiveThanks for Mopologetics: DCP Ridicules Others' "Silly" Beliefs

Post by Gadianton »

Didn't he log in from Australia one year to attack Gemli on Thanksgiving?

It seems to be a tradition. You have to wonder what he puts his family through while carving the Turkey. I'm sure there's been some serious discomfort at that table.
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Re: #GiveThanks for Mopologetics: DCP Ridicules Others' "Silly" Beliefs

Post by Bought Yahoo »

Doctor Scratch wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:27 am
In any case, I'm glad to #GiveThanks for the endless entertainment value that the Mopologists continue to provide. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!
Either you completely lack a sense of humor or your own humor is so dry I can't tell if you are pulling our legs.

Anyhoo, I have in my office a meteoriate sample of unobtanium. Got it from a rock shop in Wyoming.
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Re: #GiveThanks for Mopologetics: DCP Ridicules Others' "Silly" Beliefs

Post by Lem »

Gadianton wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:23 pm
Didn't he log in from Australia one year to attack Gemli on Thanksgiving?

It seems to be a tradition. You have to wonder what he puts his family through while carving the Turkey. I'm sure there's been some serious discomfort at that table.
Speaking of his table, he mentioned earlier this year that a neighbor brought him dinner after a minor surgery limited mobility. Not HIS mobility, by the way, but his wife's mobility, after HER surgery. She couldn't move around so well, apparently. Certainly not well enough to make him his dinner so he was very grateful when a neighbor did it. He literally had the nerve to say his wife's surgery limited her ability to serve him dinner so he was grateful someone else stepped into her server role. I couldn't believe it when I read that. He can't care for his wife? She's out of commission so he thoughtlessly just assumes someone else will do it (and I would bet a house that the someone else who brought him food was a 'well-behaved' woman), and then he tells the story, apparently with no shame whatsoever.

I can't even imagine what kind of woman would tolerate that type of casual and dismissive sexism, other than to feel immensely sad for her.

I'm thankful this holiday that my husband's hobby is cooking and mine is baking. We aren't going anywhere but our small family table is currently filling up with some very delicious items.
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Re: #GiveThanks for Mopologetics: DCP Ridicules Others' "Silly" Beliefs

Post by Physics Guy »

Peterson is making a plug for Intelligent Design. He's representing this mysterious monolith as a clear analog of that good old pocket watch that you find on a moor and from which you infer a watchmaker. The monolith has been recognised by everyone as an artificial product even though nobody knows who made it or why.

The allusion to Mount Rushmore is piling on another similar example of an obviously artificial structure found somewhere out there in nature. Nobody claims that those faces just happened by erosion. This addition is over-egging the pudding, to my mind. It would have made the same point more cleanly to just stay with the monolith. But these things happen; blog entries are often released in first draft and it's rarely worth the effort to revise them.

It's a reasonably clever effort on Peterson's part to seize an apparently teachable moment. I reckon neither he nor much of his audience understand enough natural science to realise that scientists are not in fact just refusing to accept a watchmaker-like creator on ideological grounds, but that for all its marvellous complexity Nature truly does not look like a watch—or a monolith. Whatever order there is in Nature, whatever purpose Nature may have, it is just not anything like what humans do when we make things by design.

The monolith has smooth sides and sharp edges; it has a fairly uniform composition that does not occur naturally anywhere. Yet on the microscopic level the crystal structure of its metal has no particular order. The pattern of its design is clear on large scales, and absent on small scales.

That's how artifice works. That's how human design works. That's not at all how the world works. In nature edges aren't sharp, sides aren't smooth; but the microscopic details work together. They work far from perfectly; they work just well enough to make the larger things work. Design is top-down. Nature is bottom-up.

That's why Intelligent Design is bad science and it's why watchmaker/monolith arguments only fall flat. The world isn't a watch, or a monolith. Comparing it to watches and monoliths only confirms that there cannot be a watchmaker/monolith-maker.

To avoid giving misleading impressions about my own position on these issues:
1) The bottom-up way Nature works does not seem to me at all to rule out what could be called trans-intelligent design, by an extremely superhuman intelligence that can actually design the laws of Nature themselves in order to achieve an autonomous universe in which desired features emerge spontaneously without a hands-on creator having to put them in by hand. That hypothesis seems to me perfectly consistent with science, but it is of course inherently outside scientific inquiry because it is untestable.
2) I have faith in abiogenesis but I feel bound in honesty to acknowledge an ulp-factor in the appalling intricacy of cellular machinery. Could all that really just happen through unguided chemistry? I answer, "Um, yes?" But the "um" and "?" have to be there, for me, at this point. Figuring out how this kind of stuff can really happen under blind mechanics is my current main research goal. I feel there is a lot to do on the topic.
I was a teenager before it was cool.
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Re: #GiveThanks for Mopologetics: DCP Ridicules Others' "Silly" Beliefs

Post by Moksha »

Lem wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:45 pm
Speaking of his table, he mentioned earlier this year that a neighbor brought him dinner after a minor surgery limited mobility.
Caring neighbors are wonderful, whether bearing dinners or monoliths.
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Re: #GiveThanks for Mopologetics: DCP Ridicules Others' "Silly" Beliefs

Post by IHAQ »

You will note that Peterson gave over much of his Thanksgiving Day blog article to pointing out what he perceives to be failings in other sections of Christianty.
At all times, though, I’m grateful for my family, and for the Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ and the ordinances of the temple, which assure me that I will see the departed members of my family again, that our connection with the living and the dead is eternal, and that we will still be family in the world to come.
Obviously, naturalistic materialism can make no such promise. But neither can traditional Christianity, although (for at least the past couple of centuries) many Christians have pictured themselves enjoying heaven with parents and children and kin, revealing an instinct or an intuition far sounder than their theologians, who have sometimes denounced their hope for heaven as mere sentimentality if not altogether as false doctrine.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... hanks.html

In short, he seems to be making the point that Mormons are not Christians.
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