David Hume's definition of miracle is useful here. A miracle is anything that violates the laws of nature. When you suspect you have witnessed a miracle you should
1) Check to see if it's possible you have misinterpreted what you have seen
2) Check to see if your understanding of the laws of nature are incomplete
The faithful simply bypass all checks on their senses/logic/knowledge and jump straight to "it must have been a suspension of the laws of nature!"
Kyler and Mormonism are in much more of a bind than the typical Catholic or Evangelical, because the Mormon conception of God is bound by forces greater and more fundamental than Him. God, in Mormonism, simply organizes pre-existing material, and works within the existing framework of the laws of nature. So in Mormonism, a miracle wouldn't even be defined as a suspension of the laws of nature - it would instead be defined as a product of a higher intelligence having more sophisticated technological control over the Universe than we do.
From my PoV, "disbelief in anything that smells ‘supernatural’ " should be the default position, otherwise one may accept, uncritically, all sorts of outrageous claims, simply because they are attributed to a supernatural cause.
Alien would be a much more apt description. Evangelicals are 100% right when they say that the Mormon concept of God has very little to do with the Judeo-Christian traditional concept of God. So the "God can do anything" argument doesn't work well for Mormonism, he has to play by the same rules we do.
From my PoV, "disbelief in anything that smells ‘supernatural’ " should be the default position, otherwise one may accept, uncritically, all sorts of outrageous claims, simply because they are attributed to a supernatural cause.
Not this boy!
Regards,
MG
So when someone floats an idea that has no natural explanation, your default position is belief, not disbelief?
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Alien would be a much more apt description. Evangelicals are 100% right when they say that the Mormon concept of God has very little to do with the Judeo-Christian traditional concept of God. So the "God can do anything" argument doesn't work well for Mormonism, he has to play by the same rules we do.
We’re always progressing in our understanding of what the rules are, aren’t we? One might think God knows them all.
So when someone floats an idea that has no natural explanation, your default position is belief, not disbelief?
Often somewhere in between. Think of Lourdes, for example. It’s possible that there is a mix of things going on there. It’s not all or nothing…necessarily. But once you’ve made a decision to reject any and all so-called supernatural phenomena, you’re pretty much locked into a strictly materialistic/atheistic worldview. Doubt and rejection of that which we don’t fully understand becomes the default position…with little or no alternative.
That contradicts the doctrine of eternal progression.
Care to explain?
Regards,
MG
“GOD IS INCREASING IN KNOWLEDGE. If there was a point
where man in his progression could not proceed any further, the
very idea would throw a gloom over every intelligent and reflecting
mind. God Himself is increasing and progressing in knowledge,
power, and dominion, and will do so, worlds without end”
(Wilford Woodruff, The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, p. 3).
“We must advance through stages to godhood. As man now is, God once
was—even the babe of Bethlehem, advancing to childhood—
thence to boyhood, manhood, then to the Godhead. This, then, is
the ‘mark of the prize of man’s high calling in Christ Jesus’” (Lorenzo
Snow, The Teachings of Lorenzo Snow, p. 5. Italics in original).
“Yet, if we accept the great law of eternal progression, we must
accept the fact that there was a time when Deity was much less
powerful than He is today. Then how did he become glorified and
attain His present status of Godhood? In the first place, aeons ago
God undoubtedly took advantage of every opportunity to learn
the laws of truth and as He became acquainted with each new verity
He righteously obeyed it” (Milton R. Hunter, The Gospel Through
the Ages, p. 114).
“GOD IS INCREASING IN KNOWLEDGE. If there was a point
where man in his progression could not proceed any further, the
very idea would throw a gloom over every intelligent and reflecting
mind. God Himself is increasing and progressing in knowledge,
power, and dominion, and will do so, worlds without end”
(Wilford Woodruff, The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, p. 3).
“We must advance through stages to godhood. As man now is, God once
was—even the babe of Bethlehem, advancing to childhood—
thence to boyhood, manhood, then to the Godhead. This, then, is
the ‘mark of the prize of man’s high calling in Christ Jesus’” (Lorenzo
Snow, The Teachings of Lorenzo Snow, p. 5. Italics in original).
“Yet, if we accept the great law of eternal progression, we must
accept the fact that there was a time when Deity was much less
powerful than He is today. Then how did he become glorified and
attain His present status of Godhood? In the first place, aeons ago
God undoubtedly took advantage of every opportunity to learn
the laws of truth and as He became acquainted with each new verity
He righteously obeyed it” (Milton R. Hunter, The Gospel Through
the Ages, p. 114).
I wonder what rules/laws of the universe God doesn’t understand? And does He know enough to trust Him?
Apparently there are those that would answer no to the second question.
And yes, I’ve seen/read these quotes and others like them over the years.
