Jersey Girl wrote:The topic of this thread is the Word of Wisdom and whether or not the Prophet partook of alcohol.
Yes, the prophet partook of alcohol. No, it wasn't a sin for him as he hadn't covenanted to abstain the way that we have. I don't know why some parts of the Word of Wisdom became conditions for obtaining a temple recommend while others (such as eating meat only in winter or famine) are not. I don't see why it would matter.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
Yes, the prophet partook of alcohol. No, it wasn't a sin for him as he hadn't covenanted to abstain the way that we have. I don't know why some parts of the Word of Wisdom became conditions for obtaining a temple recommend while others (such as eating meat only in winter or famine) are not. I don't see why it would matter.
Well, the questions would be... where is the revelation requiring members to covenant to abstain from alcohol, and where is the revelation that made the WoW a commandment rather than just a revelation?
(In terms of the eating meat suggestion, do you think the fact that the church owns quite a bit of the cattle industry may have something to do with it?) Actually don't answer this cause I think it is a different topic... :-) but something to think about!
Yes, the prophet partook of alcohol. No, it wasn't a sin for him as he hadn't covenanted to abstain the way that we have. I don't know why some parts of the Word of Wisdom became conditions for obtaining a temple recommend while others (such as eating meat only in winter or famine) are not. I don't see why it would matter.
Well, the questions would be... where is the revelation requiring members to covenant to abstain from alcohol, and where is the revelation that made the WoW a commandment rather than just a revelation?
(In terms of the eating meat suggestion, do you think the fact that the church owns quite a bit of the cattle industry may have something to do with it?) Actually don't answer this cause I think it is a different topic... :-) but something to think about!
~dancer~
I think your comments about owning portions of the cattle industry do actually fit into this topic when viewed as inconsistent with the Word of Wisdom.
Jersey Girl wrote:I think your comments about owning portions of the cattle industry do actually fit into this topic when viewed as inconsistent with the Word of Wisdom.
Milk. It does a body good.
But seriously, I think there may be an issue of determining the cause. Do we not prohibit meat because the church owns portions of the cattle industry, or does the church simply own part of the cattle industry because it finds it to be a good investment and there is no prohibition against meat?
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
Brethren, from Henceforth, let truth and righteousness prevail and abound in you; and in all things be temperate; abstain from drunkenness, and from swearing, and from all profane language, and from everything which is unrigteous or unholy; also from enmity, and hatred, and covetousness, and from every unholy desire. - Joseph Smith jr., DHC, 3:233, December 16, 1838
The ultimate goal of the gospel is overcoming the carnal and uplifting the spiritual. The goal of the Word of Wisdom is to overcome addiction and to teach the sanctity of the Physical body. Careing for the Temple.
The Word of Wisdom is today a commandment of the Lord to us, first given to us "not by constraint or commandment," but of later years given to us by the Prophet Brigham Young and by the Prophet Joseph F. Smith as a commandment to this people. - Heber J. Grant, IE 19:833, June 9, 1916
Add to this the scripture in D&C 58:26-27
26 For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.
27 Verily I say, men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness;
Did Joseph drink? Yes, but I don't think to excess as his Father did. I think the lesson was learned there. Nonetheless this revelation was given to benefit men in their temporal salvation, and was not a commandment until much later.[/i]
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
I'm surprised that people knowledgeable enough in church history and doctrine to tell active and happy members where their interpretations and understandings are in error are so unaware of a very basic and well known piece of church history. The revelation is given to the weak and the weakest of the saints. It is council to help those with procilivities towards excess in these areas stay clear; a fence, if you will. It was given as a help to those who suffered from addiction. It was not a commandment until September 9, 1851, when, in Conference, it was made a commandment. Joseph Smith also drank tea, by the way, but since he never had a problem with it (he always abhorred drunkenness) he obviously did not feel he was controlled enough by it to need to follow the council. Today people council others to avoid cola drinks. It's not a commandment, but many feel such a fence will help them to avoid or overcome addiction, and BYU has obviously decided it will make it easier for people to live according to that fence. I've had cola drinks all my life and am not at all effected by some caffeine, so I don't feel it's a fence that I need to put up, but if it is one day added to the commandments I will live it. Piece of cake.
maklelan wrote:I'm surprised that people knowledgeable enough in church history and doctrine to tell active and happy members where their interpretations and understandings are in error are so unaware of a very basic and well known piece of church history. The revelation is given to the weak and the weakest of the saints. It is council to help those with procilivities towards excess in these areas stay clear; a fence, if you will. It was given as a help to those who suffered from addiction. It was not a commandment until September 9, 1851, when, in Conference, it was made a commandment. Joseph Smith also drank tea, by the way, but since he never had a problem with it (he always abhorred drunkenness) he obviously did not feel he was controlled enough by it to need to follow the council. Today people council others to avoid cola drinks. It's not a commandment, but many feel such a fence will help them to avoid or overcome addiction, and BYU has obviously decided it will make it easier for people to live according to that fence. I've had cola drinks all my life and am not at all effected by some caffeine, so I don't feel it's a fence that I need to put up, but if it is one day added to the commandments I will live it. Piece of cake.
So as long as someone doesn't have drunkeness issues, they can drink alcohol and still pass a temple recommend interview? Am I translating you into simple English correctly?
I can smoke pot, do acid, take ecstacy, drink wine or rum or vodka. . . and as long as I don't have a problem, I'm ok for the temple?
I'd ask where you are from, but it is evident that it isn't the same planet that Mormonism is from. . . because what you just said is b***s*** as far as the Church is concerned.