Tithing, TRI, and part member families...

[_ajax18]

Ok let me get this straight. Husband has an income, wife doesn't. Husband is a believer and wants TR, wife is a nonbeliever and doesn't want to pay.

What if the husband paid tithing on 50% of that money? Would this be acceptable TD? Or is the only acceptable solution that he pay no tithing at all?

I'd be interested to see what the secret rules are as well, but my guess is that it is done on a case by case basis.

[_Jason Bourne]

The only thing on tithing in the CHBI is that it is 10% of ones interest annually, which is understood to mean income. No one is justified in giving any other definition then this. . If he wife was a non member and she worked but the husband who was a member did not he could declare himself as a full tithe payer if he would tithe if he had income. Same if the hubby is not a member and the wife is and does not work.

Sure income may be for the entire family and of course the stay at home spouse add value and economic benefit. But like IRS the Church just looks to who earned the income in the simplist sense.

[_Jason Bourne]

Hey Asbestos man...

Thanks... so perhaps if the non-believing spouse does not agree to have their money go to the church the believing spouse can still get a TRI even if she/he does not actually pay tithing.

I hope this is the case.

:-)

~dancer~

If the believing spouse earns the income and the because the non believing spouse objects to tithing the believer does not tithe then they wil be considered a non tithe payer. Then it is up to the bishop and the SP to determine if the person can still have a recommend. I imagine some leaders might still issue the recommend if, giving the facts and circumstances, they feel it would be a huge problem on the marriage. Others would take the bright line test approach-Income but no tithe equals non tithe payer thus no TR.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Ajax...

Well I'm looking for a policy or rule of some sort from the church.

Obvioulsy a couple can work out the situation however they want... but I'm wondering what the church stance is on this. Would the church be ok with only a 5% tithe? That to me sounds like they are splitting the money and one half is his, one half is hers. Sounds like if the believing spouse is a SAHM, she doesn't have to pay anything but this to me sounds like the church considers the money to be the sole property of the breadwinner. Is this the case?

I heard one example where the man was the non-believe and the wife insisted they pay a full tithe so he decided he would pay ten percent to the charity of his choice as well... so they were paying 20 percent of their income to charity. This meant that there needed to be some major changes in spending and life style and If I recall correctly the wife decided to soften her stance.

:-)

Maybe it is on a case by case basis...

~dancer~

[_Jason Bourne]

Ok let me get this straight. Husband has an income, wife doesn't. Husband is a believer and wants TR, wife is a nonbeliever and doesn't want to pay.

What if the husband paid tithing on 50% of that money? Would this be acceptable TD? Or is the only acceptable solution that he pay no tithing at all?

I'd be interested to see what the secret rules are as well, but my guess is that it is done on a case by case basis.

No question that is would be case by case.

[_Pokatator]

How about a scenario of a:

Stay at home Dad, no income = no tithing, a TBM, wants TR, etc.
Wife, all the income = no tithing, not a TBM, doesn't want a TR, etc.

Does the SAHD get a TR?

Kind of throws the paradigms all over the place.

[_ajax18]

Sounds like if the believing spouse is a SAHM, she doesn't have to pay anything but this to me sounds like the church considers the money to be the sole property of the breadwinner. Is this the case?

I guess that's a possibility but couldn't one also interpret from that stance that the Church does not want to disrupt and cause contention in the marriage. I mean what is the TBM wife to do, give an ultimatum, "I'm paying tithing on 50% of our income whether you like it or not." Would that be good for the Church to encourage her to do that?

My other question would be how has the couple decided to split finances in the marriage and family? I mean, does each spouse get a fixed percentage of the surplus, or is it just a take what you need deal? If it's the latter than I can see room for all kinds of contention over tithing because basically the nonbelieving spouse will be sacrificing to the Church whether they like it or not.

I'd be interested to hear if someone has developed the perfect system for regulating finance in a marriage. What are the rules?

Finances are a complicated deal in a marriage indeed especially when the marriage ends. I don't think the courts even have very many set rules that are always followed. Otherwise we wouldn't have so many lawyers making such a good living in divorce court.

Couple A

They marry young with nothing. Wife works crummy jobs to put husband through professional school. 10 years into his career they divorce.

Couple B

They marry later. Husband is already a professional. 6 years later they divorce.

The assets accumulated during the marriage are the same but fairness tells me that the two situations are very different.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Ajax...

I guess that's a possibility but couldn't one also interpret from that stance that the Church does not want to disrupt and cause contention in the marriage. I mean what is the TBM wife to do, give an ultimatum, "I'm paying tithing on 50% of our income whether you like it or not." Would that be good for the Church to encourage her to do that?

I don't think I'm explaining my issue well. :-)

I don't think anyone should be compelled to pay tithing to get a TRI at all. I'm glad a woman can go to the temple if she doesn't pay tithing because her husband is not a member. Is the same true in the reverse?

What I am wondering is, what is the church's position if it is the breadwinner who wants the TRI and the wife is a NON-Member SAHM?

In other words... does the church consider the money the sole property of the husband? Is there a double standard here?

If the SAHM doesn't have to pay because her husband is a non-member, is it also true that the husband doesn't have to pay if his wife is a non-member?

OR does the church only let SAHMs NOT pay because she doesn't make any money while the working husband would have to pay because the money is his.

Does that explain my question better?

~dancer~

[_ajax18]

I guess I don't know then. The only way to find out is to research what the Church has done in past cases some how if you could find such data, or personal experience. I'd be interested to know what they decide to do though. I doubt a procedure is written down anywhere, and if so I'm bet it's top secret.

[_Jason Bourne]

Hi Ajax...

I guess that's a possibility but couldn't one also interpret from that stance that the Church does not want to disrupt and cause contention in the marriage. I mean what is the TBM wife to do, give an ultimatum, "I'm paying tithing on 50% of our income whether you like it or not." Would that be good for the Church to encourage her to do that?

I don't think I'm explaining my issue well. :-)

I don't think anyone should be compelled to pay tithing to get a TRI at all. I'm glad a woman can go to the temple if she doesn't pay tithing because her husband is not a member. Is the same true in the reverse?

What I am wondering is, what is the church's position if it is the breadwinner who wants the TRI and the wife is a NON-Member SAHM?

In other words... does the church consider the money the sole property of the husband? Is there a double standard here?

If the SAHM doesn't have to pay because her husband is a non-member, is it also true that the husband doesn't have to pay if his wife is a non-member?

OR does the church only let SAHMs NOT pay because she doesn't make any money while the working husband would have to pay because the money is his.

Does that explain my question better?

~dancer~

I think I addressed this. If Mom is stay at home and non member and Dad works and makes all the money and is a member he would be expected to tithe on what he makes, period. Same if it were reverse. A less strict bishop might let the member slide is non member stay at home objects and earning income member does not tithe to keep the peace. My guess is most would consider him a non tither