Gazelam wrote:Bill Mahr is one of the biggest pieces of trash ever spewed from a mothers womb. In all of the times I have seen and heard him I have nothing positive to say. the man has stated publicly that he despises children and avoids their comapany at all costs, and he is also a known womanizer. In short, hes a Narcissist.
To gather up an ex-mormon pseudo celebrity and trash a religion is right up this sewer dwellers alley.
Bill Maher is my kind of guy!
And yes Jason, I am gleeful with all of the negative publicity the LDS Inc is getting! I should hold an exmo open house and invite all to come and bask in the glow!
You seem like a nice guy, too bad you are still entrenched in that theocracy.
[quote="Polygamy Porter"]that's right primary kids! Bill Maher's HBO program: "Inconveniently telling the truth" is gonna do just that. And geusssss what? Someone that many of you all once looked up to as being a shining example of a good Mormon, Tal Bachman, is showing Bill all of your sacred temple gang handshakes and making JOKES about your masonic Jesus jammies!
I emailed Tal to ask him if your synopsis is correct and he responded as follows:
"I didn't show Bill any handshakes, and didn't make any jokes about Jesus jammies, though Bill did. I did, however, describe the nature of the temple endowment."
FYI, your post is featured on MADB where I also posted Tal's response, as above, which is different from the impression you're giving. I think it's important to be factual in our commentary about Mormonism (I guess an exception for rants is understandable). But hey, it's already too easy to be misunderstood and to get facts muddled up and for people to misunderstand each other. I know that a lot of people are looking at both sides of all the main issues, trying to figure out what's right, what's wrong, who and what can be trusted. If we try hard to be factual when the situation/discussion warrants it (obvious irrational but understandable rants excepted) I'm sure that is more helpful than if we create false impressions. I'm sure Tal doesn't need any help in getting an even worse reception on MADB. Obviously, they're going to criticize him but I hope it's only for what he did say/do and not what he didn't. That is what I hope for from LDS posters there as well. I especially really hate it when I am misquoted or misrepresented, even by accident. So I feel for Tal when that happens.
Thought you might want to know what Tal really said.
OUT OF MY MISERY wrote:I love Bill Mahr he is my idol go figure. Mitty is going to pull out as soon as he can't compete with the money making machines such as Rudy, Hillary etc. The press loves the both of them Mitty is just a mere fly spec on the wall of the race nothing to worry about. Obama is going to disappear real soon as well, he will be over shadowed by Rudy, Hillary etc.
No I am not racist just pragmatic......
I find Bill Mahr funny, but when he tries to get serious, he gets out of his depth very quickly. He needs to stick with comedy and not wade into serious debate where he has no comparative advantage.
God . . . "who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, . . . and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him ..."
And yes Jason, I am gleeful with all of the negative publicity the LDS Inc is getting! I should hold an exmo open house and invite all to come and bask in the glow!
I am sorry that you are still so angry and bitter. I can see if you do not like the church, and if you want nothing yto do with it, and even if you want to debate about it. But see something much different. Anger, angst, gnashing of teeth, rank hostolity. It just seems like a bad way to live.
You seem like a nice guy, too bad you are still entrenched in that theocracy.
Thank you. I try to be nice. I have my questions and of course there are those like Plutarch who brand me as a hypocrite, and he is partly right, that would have prefer I either get back on board or get out. But I am ok with where I am at now and ultimatly one needs to feel ok with themselves.
Mormon Candidate Braces for Religion as Issue
By ADAM NAGOURNEY and LAURIE GOODSTEIN
WASHINGTON, Feb. 7 — As he begins campaigning for the Republican presidential nomination, Mitt Romney, the former Massachusetts governor, is facing a threshold issue: Will his religion — he is a Mormon — be a big obstacle to winning the White House?
Polls show a substantial number of Americans will not vote for a Mormon for president. The religion is viewed with suspicion by Christian conservatives, a vital part of the Republicans’ primary base.
Mr. Romney’s advisers acknowledged that popular misconceptions about Mormonism — as well as questions about whether Mormons are beholden to their church’s leaders on public policy — could give his opponents ammunition in the wide-open fight among Republicans to become the consensus candidate of social conservatives.
Mr. Romney, in an extended interview on the subject as he drove through South Carolina last week, expressed confidence that he could quell concerns about his faith, pointing to his own experience winning in Massachusetts. He said he shared with many Americans the bafflement over obsolete Mormon practices like polygamy — he described it as “bizarre” — and disputed the argument that his faith would require him to be loyal to his church before his country.
“People have interest early on in your religion and any similar element of your background,” he said. “But as soon as they begin to watch you on TV and see the debates and hear you talking about issues, they are overwhelmingly concerned with your vision of the future and the leadership skills that you can bring to bear.”
Still, Mr. Romney is taking no chances. He has set up a meeting this month in Florida with 100 ministers and religious broadcasters. That gathering follows what was by all accounts a successful meeting at his home last fall with evangelical leaders, including the Rev. Jerry Falwell; the Rev. Franklin Graham, who is a son of the Rev. Billy Graham; and Paula White, a popular preacher.
Mr. Romney said he was giving strong consideration to a public address about his faith and political views, modeled after the one John F. Kennedy gave in 1960 in the face of a wave of concern about his being a Roman Catholic.
Mr. Romney’s aides said he had closely studied Kennedy’s speech in trying to measure how to navigate the task of becoming the nation’s first Mormon president, and he has consulted other Mormon elected leaders, including Senator Orrin G. Hatch, Republican of Utah, about how to proceed.
Mr. Romney appears to be making some headway. Several prominent evangelical leaders said that, after meeting him, they had grown sufficiently comfortable with the notion of Mr. Romney as president to overcome any concerns they might have about his religion.
On a pragmatic level, some said that Mr. Romney — despite questions among conservatives about his shifting views on abortion and gay rights — struck them as the Republican candidate best able to win and carry their social conservative agenda to the White House.
“There’s this growing acceptance of this idea that Mitt Romney may well be and is our best candidate,” said Jay Sekulow, the chief counsel for the American Center for Law and Justice, a conservative legal advocacy group, and a prominent host on Christian radio.
Mark DeMoss, an evangelical public relations consultant who represents many conservative Christian groups, said it was “more important to me that a candidate shares my values than my faith,” adding, “And if I look at it this way, Mr. Romney would be my top choice.”
Mormons consider themselves to be Christians, but some beliefs central to Mormons are regarded by other churches as heretical. For example, Mormons have three books of Scripture other than the Bible, including the Book of Mormon, which Mormons believe was translated from golden plates discovered in 1827 by Joseph Smith Jr., the church’s founder and first prophet.
Mormons believe that Smith rescued Christianity from apostasy and restored the church to what was envisioned in the New Testament — but these doctrines are beyond the pale for most Christian churches.
Beyond that, there are perceptions among some people regarding the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as the church is formally known, that account for at least some of the public unease: that Mormons still practice polygamy (the church renounced polygamy in 1890), that it is more of a cult than a religion and that its members take political direction from the church’s leaders.
Several Republicans said such perceptions could be a problem for Mr. Romney, especially in the South, which has had a disproportionate influence in selecting Republican presidential nominees.
Gloria A. Haskins, a state representative from South Carolina who is supporting Senator John McCain for the Republican nomination, said discussions with her constituents in Greenville, an evangelical stronghold, convinced her that a Mormon like Mr. Romney could not win a Republican primary in her state. South Carolina has one of the earliest, and most critical, primaries next year.
“From what I hear in my district, it is very doubtful,” Ms. Haskins said. “This is South Carolina. We’re very mainstream, evangelical, Christian, conservative. It will come up. In this of all states, it will come up.”
But Katon Dawson, the state Republican chairman, said he thought Mr. Romney had made significant progress in dealing with those concerns. “I have heard him on his personal faith and on his character and conviction and the love for his country,” Mr. Dawson said. “I have all confidence that he will be able to answer those questions, whether they be in negative ads against him or in forums or in debates.”
Mr. Romney’s candidacy has stirred discussion about faith and the White House unlike any since Kennedy, including a remarkable debate that unfolded recently in The New Republic. Damon Linker, a critic of the influence of Christian conservatism on politics, described Mormonism as a “theologically unstable, and thus politically perilous, religion.”
The article brought a stinging rebuttal in the same publication from Richard Lyman Bushman, a Mormon who is a history professor at Columbia University, and who said Mr. Linker’s arguments had “no grounding in reality.”
Mr. Romney is not the first Mormon to seek a presidential nomination, but by every indication he has the best chance yet of being in the general election next year. His father, George Romney, was a candidate in 1968, but his campaign collapsed before he ever had to deal seriously with questions about religion.
Senator Hatch said his own candidacy in 2000, which was something of a long shot, was to “knock down prejudice against my faith.”
“There’s a lot of prejudice out there,” Mr. Hatch said. “We’ve come a long way, but there are still many people around the country who consider the Mormon faith a cult.”
But if Mr. Romney has made progress with evangelicals, he appears to face a larger challenge in dispelling apprehensions among the public at large. A national poll by The Los Angeles Times and Bloomberg News last June found 37 percent said they would not vote for a Mormon for president.
Mr. Romney offered assurances that seemed to reflect what Kennedy told the nation in discussing his Catholicism some 50 years ago. Mr. Romney said the requirements of his faith would never overcome his political obligations. He pointed out that in Massachusetts, he had signed laws allowing stores to sell alcohol on Sundays, even though he was prohibited by his faith from drinking, and to expand the state lottery, though Mormons are forbidden to gamble. He also noted that Mormons are not exclusively Republicans, pointing to Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, the Democratic majority leader.
“There’s no church-directed view,” Mr. Romney said. “How can you have Harry Reid on one side and Orrin Hatch on the other without recognizing that the church doesn’t direct political views? I very clearly subscribe to Abraham Lincoln’s view of America’s political religion. And that is when you take the oath of office, your responsibility is to the nation, and that is first and foremost.”
He said he was not concerned about the resistance in the polls. “If you did a poll and said: ‘Could a divorced actor be elected as president? Would you vote for a divorced actor as president?’ my guess is 70 percent would say no. But then they saw Ronald Reagan. They heard him. They heard his vision. They heard his experience. They said: ‘I like Ronald Reagan. I’m voting for him.’ ”
Adam Nagourney reported from Washington, and Laurie Goodstein from New York.
When I wake up I will be hungry....but this feels so good right now aaahhhhhh........
Mitty boy does not stand a chance and you all know it just admit it now, it will make you all feel better. Well some of us know it already and some are having a harder time with accepting the fact over myth.
Then again I never could swallow myths over facts anyways.....Understand what I mean?? SMILE
When I wake up I will be hungry....but this feels so good right now aaahhhhhh........