Mitt: Polygamy "bizarre" & other gems

[_Jason Bourne]

Interesting article about Mitt and religion in today's New York Times (see link below). A couple of interesting quotes from the article (emphasis added):

He [Mitt] said he shared with many Americans the bafflement over obsolete Mormon practices like polygamy — he described it as “bizarre” — and disputed the argument that his faith would require him to be loyal to his church before his country.

and

“There’s no church-directed view,” Mr. Romney said. “How can you have Harry Reid on one side and Orrin Hatch on the other without recognizing that the church doesn’t direct political views? I very clearly subscribe to Abraham Lincoln’s view of America’s political religion. And that is when you take the oath of office, your responsibility is to the nation, and that is first and foremost.”

It seems like Mitt will say anything to appear 'mainstream' to the electorate. First, he describes a current LDS doctrine/belief (even still practiced in some limited cases), and to which his ancestors were staunch adherents, as "bizarre." Second, he claims that as president his duty is "first and foremost" to the nation, which would seem, at least theoretically, to be inconsistent with his temple loyalty oaths (particularly in light of the long admired LDS prophecy/belief that it will be the LDS priesthood to save the nation when the Constitution "hangs by a thread"). I have no problem with Mitt running for prez; I just think he ought to be a little more honest about his religion.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/08/us/po ... ref=slogin

Why do you say he is not honest. Maybe he does find polygmay bizzare. I do and it is in my heritage.

Also, he siad he would put country first. So he said as president that essentially would be ahead of his temple covenants. Maybe he thinkls the contituttion by the thread idea is bunk too. By the way, I am not sure that was even a prohecy. I believe Joseph Smith said it would hang by a thread and is is is to be saved at all it would be by the Elders of the church. The key is "IF"

[_TAK]

Also, he siad he would put country first. So he said as president that essentially would be ahead of his temple covenants. Maybe he thinkls the contituttion by the thread idea is bunk too. By the way, I am not sure that was even a prohecy. I believe Joseph Smith said it would hang by a thread and is is is to be saved at all it would be by the Elders of the church. The key is "IF"

If Mitt is willing to "put country first" then he is a liar ..

he took an oath in the temple to "consecrate (his) ... time, talents and everything which the Lord has blessed.., or with which he may bless.., to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion "

At the least he needs to renounce that oath..

[Dr. Sunstoned]

It seems like Mitt will say anything to appear 'mainstream' to the electorate. First, he describes a current LDS doctrine/belief (even still practiced in some limited cases), and to which his ancestors were staunch adherents, as "bizarre." Second, he claims that as president his duty is "first and foremost" to the nation, which would seem, at least theoretically, to be inconsistent with his temple loyalty oaths (particularly in light of the long admired LDS prophecy/belief that it will be the LDS priesthood to save the nation when the Constitution "hangs by a thread"). I have no problem with Mitt running for prez; I just think he ought to be a little more honest about his religion.

You are a bold faced, flat footed liar Rollo, and you should leave this fourm, recuse yourself from any semblance of serious, intellectually honest discourse, and go away. Your utter straight faced mendacity is actually of Decker proportions. Polygamy is still practiced (in some limited cases) by Latter Day Saints?

This just puts you where you belong Rollo, with the most dishonest and demagogical ideologues and bigots in the history of modern political and social discourse. You have now taken your place alongside Ed Decker, Walter Martin, John Ankerberg, and on the other side of the cultural coin, Michael Moore, Cindy Sheehan, John Kerry, Bill and Hillary Clinton, Joe Wilson, and Mike Nifong.

You utterly disgust me. Its people like you who have made dialog between Mormons and their critcs well nigh impossible.


Loran

[_silentkid]

You need to re-read my post. I did not call Romney a 'jack-Mormon'.

From what I've heard, he's an active, temple recommend holding member.

Holding a temple recommend does not show that one believes the doctrines of the LDS Church or has faith in the organization.

A lot of active members that I deal with (my parents and family) find the practice of polygamy "bizarre". I guess they're all "jack-mormons" too.

If they don't believe LDS doctrine, then I'd say yes, they are.

No, you implied that he was a jack-mormon. I can read. Maybe you should re-read your original post and explain to me where my reading comprehension skills faltered. Are you FLDS? Your comments make it seem as if you are tip-toeing the line.

[_Mister Scratch]

Most likely, Mitt's just your regular run of the mill chapel Mormon, who thinks polygamy was just something done for a brief period of time in the early church, because of the lack of priesthood holding males to take care of all the valiant women. He may not even know the church still practices polygamy (in some form).

I'm quite certain he knows -- he has served as a stake president and bishop, and has long had access to the CHI. He's just being coy with the press.

I agree wholeheartedly with this, and have been arguing for some time that Gov. Romney's behavior vis-a-vis the press suggests that he is in some way embarrassed about Mormonism. TBMs have trotted out all sorts of far-flung explanations to try and defuse this argument---Mitt doesn't want to "cast his pearls before swine"; Mitt "isn't qualified to discuss doctrine"; religion has nothing to do with politics, etc.---none of which have been very convincing, in my opinion.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

You are a bold faced, flat footed liar Rollo, and you should leave this fourm, recuse yourself from any semblance of serious, intellectually honest discourse, and go away.

Tell me how you really feel, Loran.

Polygamy is still practiced (in some limited cases) by Latter Day Saints?

Yup. It is official LDS policy that "if a husband and wife have been sealed and the wife dies, the man may have another woman sealed to him if she is not already sealed." Contrast that policy with this official policy: "A living woman may be sealed to only one husband." In other words, a widower or civilly divorced man, sealed to a first wife, can be sealed for time and eternity to a second wife; in contrast, a widow or civilly divorced woman sealed to a first husband, cannot be married for time and eternity to a second husband (unless her first sealing is cancelled or the woman has died). This policy is what allows Elders Oaks and Nelson to refer to their second wives as "eternal companion."

This just puts you where you belong Rollo, with the most dishonest and demagogical ideologues and bigots in the history of modern political and social discourse.

Stop holding back, Loran -- how do you really feel?

You have now taken your place alongside Ed Decker, Walter Martin, John Ankerberg, and on the other side of the cultural coin, Michael Moore, Cindy Sheehan, John Kerry, Bill and Hillary Clinton, Joe Wilson, and Mike Nifong.

You forgot to include George W. Bush on that list.

You utterly disgust me.

Finally, some openness!

Its people like you who have made dialog between Mormons and their critcs well nigh impossible.

How so?

[_Jason Bourne]

A Republican jack-mormon is going to be better than any democrat. That last being an affliction that disqualifies anyone from being truely LDS because it requires disbelief of major LDS doctrines.

I wonder if Mitt would agree with your labeling him a "jack-mormon". From what I've heard, he's an active, temple recommend holding member. A lot of active members that I deal with (my parents and family) find the practice of polygamy "bizarre". I guess they're all "jack-mormons" too.

He is an active Mormon and believe he served as a SP at one point.

[_christopher]

You are a bold faced, flat footed liar Rollo, and you should leave this fourm, recuse yourself from any semblance of serious, intellectually honest discourse, and go away. Your utter straight faced mendacity is actually of Decker proportions. Polygamy is still practiced (in some limited cases) by Latter Day Saints?

Doesn't it happen every day in the temple? I know many men who are sealed to their wife, then after she died, they were married and sealed to the next wife. They and I were taught that he will be married to both for eternities. Maybe this isn't what Rollo is talking about, but it is certainly a practice of a type of polygamy.


Chris <><


PS:

You utterly disgust me. Its people like you who have made dialog between Mormons and their critcs well nigh impossible.
Loran

Nice rant. Did you bust a vein?

[_Jason Bourne]

Also, he siad he would put country first. So he said as president that essentially would be ahead of his temple covenants. Maybe he thinkls the contituttion by the thread idea is bunk too. By the way, I am not sure that was even a prohecy. I believe Joseph Smith said it would hang by a thread and is is is to be saved at all it would be by the Elders of the church. The key is "IF"

If Mitt is willing to "put country first" then he is a liar ..

he took an oath in the temple to "consecrate (his) ... time, talents and everything which the Lord has blessed.., or with which he may bless.., to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion "

At the least he needs to renounce that oath..

Oh get off it. Both you and Rollo. he can put country first and still be a good temple Mormon.

I can see Mitt's biggest enemies will not be evangelicals but bitter angry ex Mormons.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Doesn't it happen every day in the temple? I know many men who are sealed to their wife, then after she died, they were married and sealed to the next wife. They and I were taught that he will be married to both for eternities. Maybe this isn't what Rollo is talking about, but it is certainly a practice of a type of polygamy.

This is exactly what I was talking about, and throw in civilly divorced men as well, although such men must now obtain FP "clearance" (as opposed to "cancellation," which is what a civilly divorced woman needs) before the second temple marriage.