Ray A wrote:Is it at the church, or the way you've been treated by Mormons?
I think some anger is legitimate, but I'd like to know what makes you angry.
I always get angry when I see intolerance and hatred taught by any organization such as the Ku Klux Klan, White Supremecists, Black Power and religious groups.
I was especially angered when my friend across the street told me my next-door neighbor's kids informed their kids they couldn't play with them because they were Catholic. Of course, it goes without my saying that the next-door neighbors are devout Mormons.
The problem I have with organized religion is it seems to produce divisive hatred in the most devout and fundamental of believers, and when this hatred is inculcated in children, I become angry. This gets to the root cause of my withdrawal from all religion.
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. –Blaise Pascal
Without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion. -Stephen Weinberg
Gods love is not conditional, that's why there are many levels to heaven.
What degree God can entrust you with authority and power is conditional. It is based on obedience to principles that are eternal.
GIMR, forgive me for useing a personal example, but you love your sister, but to what degree would you entrust her to represent you in an important situation?
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
I am not sure what value there is in each side looking to justify their anger. Both will invariably consider their anger justified, and all this will accomplish is to encourage victimological fingerpointing and thus fomment more anger. It will simply serve to feed the cycle of anger.
Besides, the adverse nature of anger is designed to motivate immediate rectification of the cause of the anger. So, if one's anger is prolonged (how long has it been since some of you have left the Church?), then that is clear indication that one's response to the anger was dysfunctional--i.e. it didn't work. It then is would be in one's interest, and the interest of all parties, to find a more healthy and functional resolution.
Granted, if the anger is severe and prolonged, it may be wise to examine the cause. But, this entails digging deeper than the obvious sentiments about being victimized, frustrated, wronged, or insulted (such as what may be found on this thread). It entails uncoverying some of the very subtle "automatic thoughts" or undergirding beliefs about self and others.
It is a shame that there can be no lightning rod to dissipate this type of anger. It is a shame to let it smolder to the point of being noxious to oneself and others. What I find especially sad is when this anger is toted around for many years. It must take its toll on the angry person and those around them. In dynamic psychology, it is thought that repressing your anger leads to depression, but I know from personal experience that those folks who are expressive of their anger can create an unpleasant environment that in itself could make them depressed.
I am angry for all the blatant lies i was told since childhood.
I am angry for all the time i spent brainwasing myself to ignore any and all problems that someone might bring up, including myself.
I am angry for the conditional love my parents where trained to hold their children to.
I am angry for the acceptance to give up all expectations of privacy.
I am angry for the little respect given via random "visitations", which more like spying for the morg.
I am angry for all the money given in good trust, only to have it spent on business.
I am angry for all the abuse that is covered up, physical, emotional, sexual, or otherwise. Even within my own family line.
I am angry for the delagation of women as secondary citizens.
I am angry for the power that i gave to the leadership for all personal thought and choice.
I am angry for the guilt i was made to feel, simply for being attracted to a woman.
I am angry for the guilt placed on me for not being "perfect".
I am angry at the ignorance i was taught concerning "the real world".
Most of all, im angry that i can not speak to more than 2/3 of my family, and the rest at nothing more than a basic level and not as an adult.
One nice thing is, ze game of love is never called on account of darkness - Pepe Le Pew
The anger I feel toward Mormonism isn't for myself. How pissed off can I be when I got out and no longer need to believe the nonsense? No, my anger is on behalf of the converts that are lied to and coerced into the baptismal font under false pretenses. My anger is also for the children who are spoon fed crap and have piles of guilt heaped on them, and for their mothers who are made to believe that men are superior.
Lest you think I am only irked by Mormonism, I feel the exact same way about all groups that play the school yard bully to get what they want.
Gazelam wrote:Gods love is not conditional, that's why there are many levels to heaven.
Did you really just state that God's setting of conditions to get into different levels of heaven makes God's love non-conditional?
I mean, no offense, but I haven't heard something so contradictory in the same sentence since Bush started flinging the phrase "Military Intelligence" around his press conferences.
The fact that there are multiple "levels" of heaven and there are conditions to get into each is the definition of "conditional love" in context, is it not?
God set conditions = non-conditional?
Or is there some other definition of conditional love that I'm unaware of?
I am not sure what value there is in each side looking to justify their anger. Both will invariably consider their anger justified, and all this will accomplish is to encourage victimological fingerpointing and thus fomment more anger. It will simply serve to feed the cycle of anger.
Hi Wade! :) What if, instead of justifying the anger, it is both recognized and legitimized. I think that is the difference in success here.
If you are able to recognize your anger, then you can move on. The trick is not getting locked in that victim mode of being angry. Recognize you're angry. It's a legitimate anger for you. Now....how do you move on? What plans are you going to put in place to move beyond this?
This is the point where I think that Cognitive Behavior Therapy can be extremely helpful.
Just my two cents...from one armchair psychologist to another. LOL
Gazelam wrote:Gods love is not conditional, that's why there are many levels to heaven.
What degree God can entrust you with authority and power is conditional. It is based on obedience to principles that are eternal.
GIMR, forgive me for useing a personal example, but you love your sister, but to what degree would you entrust her to represent you in an important situation?
I understand what you're saying, Gaz, but there are some inherent differences here. You are, in essence, comparing God to a CEO of a company. He's only going to hire the top performers to "represent" him....to perform a specific job.
But we're talking about separating families here. This is where I have problems. My Dad smokes, but he is a wonderful father. He raised my brother and I well. He is a phenomenal grandfather, and there is not anyone on this earth who I would consider more charitable towards others than my Dad. But because he smokes(and he has tried to quit), he is not going to be able to dwell in the same kingdom with his children and his grandchildren? How messed up is that?
