A discussion with Mr. Scratch

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_harmony
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Re: Liz

Post by _harmony »

The Authority to act in Gods name exists solely in this church and in no other.


Circular reasoning, Gaz. We have the authority because we say we have the authority. What makes our saying we have the authority any more authoritive than the Catholic Church saying they have the authority? Or the Protestant churches saying everyone has the authority? Common consent, Gaz. Common consent with all of mankind is what's needed to make that assertion, not just the .001% of mankind represented by the LDS church.

The Melchizedek priesthood and its sealing power are not found in any other place. Other churchs do great work, and lay a foundation in true belief, but the fulness of the gospel is found only in one place, and that is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.


And the Melch priesthood was restored when?... Please quote the chapter and verse for that particular revelation. Because you know what it says, the same as I do: we don't know exactly when or where the revelation that supposedly restored the Melch priesthood took place. Not much authority there, if it wasn't important enough to even write it down.
_Mister Scratch
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Post by _Mister Scratch »

ajax18 wrote:Do you espouse a particular religion Scratch?

Could you tell us your beliefs on why we are here on earth, where are we going when we die, what are the consequences of different actions.


That's sort of the point... The answers aren't fully clear, and I'm okay with that.

Perhaps these questions cannot be answered scientifically but I definitely feel drawn to searching for an answer to them. I guess I don't cope as well not knowing these things as you seem to. I'm not sure I could function that well changing these basic beliefs every year or two, hence I don't until I get overwhelming evidence to the contrary. While I'm not sure of what I believe in a scientific sense, I kind of have to be sure in some sense to maintain sanity. How do you get past this?


There is no "getting past" it. It just is. Don't fight it; accept it.
_Gazelam
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Scratch

Post by _Gazelam »

Sorry for the structure of the post, but I've never been very good at useing the quote feature, and was drawing from one page to another useing a cut and paste technique. Practice makes perfect I hope.

Scratch:
I think the evidence is right there in your sentence, Gaz---i.e., "perceive." I don't think that God exists in a simply plane of existence that corresponds to all-too-human notions of "the real." God is thus both "symbolic" and "literal"; both "abstract" and "real." I see no reason why I should have to view God as "real" in the materialist's sense.


So despite all the words of the Prophets both modern and ancient, God is not physical? With this in mind, how do you view the doctrine of the resurrection? (Luke 24:36-53)

Concerning the Gift of the Holy Ghost, the use of the Melchizedek Priesthood is there to bestow that gift by the laying on of hands in a very literal sence. (1 Tim. 4:14, D&C 84:19-24)

" I often think that our elders themselves hardly realize the significance of the situation they occupy when they say to him that believes, repents and is baptised, "Receive thou the Holy Ghost." Is there a thing of more importance that we can think of anywhere than this which so many of us treat so lightly. The idea of a man, human and fallible, pronounceing the reception of the Holy Ghost upon his fellow man, and his fellow receiving that heavenly treasure, is one of the greatest manifestations of the faithfulness of God, in sanctioning the acts of His elders that it is possible for us to conceive of. He has said that through these ordinances He would confer the Holy Ghost; He has also fulfilled it, as the thousands who hear me today can bear record." - John Taylor, JD 21:346, Jan. 2, 1881

that's the difference Scratch, we are acting for and in behalf of God himself in the physical conference of a spiritual gift.

Gaz:
The Brethren only have a greater power of discernment in that they apply the teachings of the church, and therefore enjoy the company of the spirit more, than the average member of the church.


Scratch:
I've never seen any evidence that would support this claim. In fact, the bulk of the evidence I've seen relating to this would indicate that they have even less time to "apply the teachings of the Church" since their schedules are so busy.


What is the application of the teachings of Christ? Service. As you say, they are busy in this activity all the time, testifying, blessing, setting up and maintaining the kingdom of God. How is this different than the schedule the Savior himself kept?


In regards to your question concerning their receiving revelation regarding the church: "When was the last time this happened? "

As I recall this happens on thursdays in the Salt Lake Temple.


Suspicion and doubt don't trouble me in the least, since I know where to go for answers. that's the difference, I trust in the Holy Ghost, and you don't. When was the last time you said a sincere prayer? If that's not too personal a question, but I see it as relevant to what we are discussing here.

Gaz
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_Mister Scratch
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Re: Scratch

Post by _Mister Scratch »

Gazelam wrote:Sorry for the structure of the post, but I've never been very good at useing the quote feature, and was drawing from one page to another useing a cut and paste technique. Practice makes perfect I hope.

Scratch:
I think the evidence is right there in your sentence, Gaz---i.e., "perceive." I don't think that God exists in a simply plane of existence that corresponds to all-too-human notions of "the real." God is thus both "symbolic" and "literal"; both "abstract" and "real." I see no reason why I should have to view God as "real" in the materialist's sense.


So despite all the words of the Prophets both modern and ancient, God is not physical? With this in mind, how do you view the doctrine of the resurrection? (Luke 24:36-53)

Concerning the Gift of the Holy Ghost, the use of the Melchizedek Priesthood is there to bestow that gift by the laying on of hands in a very literal sence. (1 Tim. 4:14, D&C 84:19-24)

" I often think that our elders themselves hardly realize the significance of the situation they occupy when they say to him that believes, repents and is baptised, "Receive thou the Holy Ghost." Is there a thing of more importance that we can think of anywhere than this which so many of us treat so lightly. The idea of a man, human and fallible, pronounceing the reception of the Holy Ghost upon his fellow man, and his fellow receiving that heavenly treasure, is one of the greatest manifestations of the faithfulness of God, in sanctioning the acts of His elders that it is possible for us to conceive of. He has said that through these ordinances He would confer the Holy Ghost; He has also fulfilled it, as the thousands who hear me today can bear record." - John Taylor, JD 21:346, Jan. 2, 1881

that's the difference Scratch, we are acting for and in behalf of God himself in the physical conference of a spiritual gift.


In what way is this "conference" "physical"? What is your evidence? Pres. Taylor's talk points out that this is a "heavenly treasure," which to my mind means that it is an abstraction. It is thus not "real" in the human sense. We may want it to be, for our own very corporeal and petty reasons, but that's what faith is for.

Gaz:
The Brethren only have a greater power of discernment in that they apply the teachings of the church, and therefore enjoy the company of the spirit more, than the average member of the church.


Scratch:
I've never seen any evidence that would support this claim. In fact, the bulk of the evidence I've seen relating to this would indicate that they have even less time to "apply the teachings of the Church" since their schedules are so busy.


What is the application of the teachings of Christ? Service. As you say, they are busy in this activity all the time, testifying, blessing, setting up and maintaining the kingdom of God. How is this different than the schedule the Savior himself kept?


Lol.... I don't think that Christ was continually involved in board meetings, or in overseeing the operations of what is, in essence, a multinational corporation. Let's face it: virtually all of the Brethren are either MBAs, or have some sort of experience with upper management. Christ's ministry did not resemble what the contemporary Brethren are doing at all, in my opinion. Further, until we are given an open and honest account of how much financial compensation the Brethren receive, I don't feel comfortable labeling what they do as "service."

In regards to your question concerning their receiving revelation regarding the church: "When was the last time this happened? "

As I recall this happens on thursdays in the Salt Lake Temple.


No, I mean real, genuine revelation. Not their run-of-the-mill board meetings or prayer circles. When was the last time one of the Brethren actually proclaimed that he had seen Christ, or had a vision, like the Brethren during Joseph Smith's time used to do?


Suspicion and doubt don't trouble me in the least, since I know where to go for answers. that's the difference, I trust in the Holy Ghost, and you don't.


What is the Holy Ghost, Gaz? Somebody real, whom you can have a conversation with? Or is the Holy Ghost a spiritual abstraction?

When was the last time you said a sincere prayer? If that's not too personal a question, but I see it as relevant to what we are discussing here.

Gaz


Every day, though I would imagine that my "prayers" are rather different than yours.
_Gazelam
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Scratch

Post by _Gazelam »

Question from Gaz: So despite all the words of the Prophets both modern and ancient, God is not physical? With this in mind, how do you view the doctrine of the resurrection? (Luke 24:36-53)

Please answer this question.


In what way is this "conference" "physical"? What is your evidence? Pres. Taylor's talk points out that this is a "heavenly treasure," which to my mind means that it is an abstraction. It is thus not "real" in the human sense. We may want it to be, for our own very corporeal and petty reasons, but that's what faith is for.


"The Holy Ghost . . . is different from the common Spirit of God, which we are told lighteth every man that cometh into the world. The Holy Ghost is only given to men through their obedience to the gospel of Christ; and every man who receives that Spirit has a comforter withen - a leader to dictate and guide him. This Spirit reveals, day by day, to every man who has faith, those things which are for his benefit. As Job said, "there is a spirit in man and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth it understanding." it is this inspiration of God to His children in every age of the world that is one of the necessary gifts to sustain man and enable him to walk by faith and to go forth and obey all the dictations and commandments and revelations which God gives to His children to guide and direct them in life." - Wilford Woodruff, JD 13:157, Dec. 12, 1869

That being said regarding the Gift of the Holy Ghost, the Holy Ghost himself is an independent being.

"The Holy Ghost, who is a member of the Trinity in the Godhead, has not a body of flesh and bones, like the Father and the Son, but is a personage of Spirit. . . .
The Holy Ghost as a personage of Spirit can no more be omnipresent in person than can the Father or the Son, but by his intelligence, his knowledge, his power and influence, over and through the laws of nature, he is and can be omnipresent throughout all the works of God. . . .
The Holy Ghost in person may visit men and will visit those who are worthy and bearwitness to their spirit of God and Christ but may not tarry with them. - Joseph F. Smith, IE 12:389-390, March, 1909

The Holy Ghost is God, and his presence withen a person has a sanctifying effect on a person and prepares both their spirit and their body for the ressurection. (D&C 88:11-41)


Lol.... I don't think that Christ was continually involved in board meetings, or in overseeing the operations of what is, in essence, a multinational corporation. Let's face it: virtually all of the Brethren are either MBAs, or have some sort of experience with upper management. Christ's ministry did not resemble what the contemporary Brethren are doing at all, in my opinion. Further, until we are given an open and honest account of how much financial compensation the Brethren receive, I don't feel comfortable labeling what they do as "service."


Try Acts Chp. 5 for an example of the Apostles collecting titheing, or any number of other passages from the epistles for a sign of how the apostles met and instructed the various branchs of the church. And if they were spending all of their time in the service of the church, how do you think they sustained themselves? Tithes and offerings?

No, I mean real, genuine revelation. Not their run-of-the-mill board meetings or prayer circles. When was the last time one of the Brethren actually proclaimed that he had seen Christ, or had a vision, like the Brethren during Joseph Smith's time used to do?


The last time I am aware of as to when Christ himself was seen is from the diary of Lorenzo Snows grandaughter Alice:

THE SAVIOR APPEARED TO HIM IN THE SALT LAKE TEMPLE
“For some time President Woodruff ’s health had been failing. Nearly every evening President Lorenzo Snow visited him at his home. This particular evening the doctors said that President Woodruff could not live much longer, that he was becoming weaker every day. President Snow was greatly worried. We cannot realize today what a terrible financial condition the Church was in at that time—owing millions of dollars and not being able to pay even the interest on its indebtedness.
“My father went to his room in the Salt Lake Temple, dressed in his robes of the Priesthood, knelt at the sacred altar in the Holy of Holies in the House of the Lord and there plead to the Lord to spare President Woodruff ’s life, that President Woodruff might outlive him and that the
great responsibility of Church leadership would not fall upon his shoulders. Yet he promised the Lord that he would devotedly perform any duty required at his hands. . . .
“. . . [On 2 September 1898, after receiving word of the death of Wilford Woodruff, President Snow] went to his private room in the Salt Lake Temple.
“President Snow put on his holy temple robes, repaired again to the same sacred altar, offered up the signs of the Priesthood and poured out his heart to the Lord. He reminded the Lord how he plead for President Woodruff ’s life to be spared, that President Woodruff ’s days would be lengthened beyond his own; that he might never be called upon to bear the heavy burdens and responsibilities of the Church. ‘Nevertheless,’ he said, ‘Thy will be done. I have not sought this responsibility but if it be Thy will, I now present myself before Thee for Thy guidance and instruction. I ask that Thou show me what Thou wouldst have me do.’
“After finishing his prayer he expected a reply, some special manifestation from the Lord. So he waited,—and waited—and waited. There was no reply, no voice, no visitation, no manifestation. He left the altar and the room in great disappointment. Passing through the Celestial room and out into the large corridor a glorious manifestation was given President Snow which I relate in the words of his grand-daughter, Allie Young Pond. . . .
“‘One evening while I was visiting grandpa Snow in his room in the Salt Lake Temple, I remained until the door keepers had gone and the night-watchmen had not yet come in, so grand-pa said he would take me to the main front entrance and let me out that way. He got his bunch of keys from his dresser. After we left his room and while we were still in the large corridor leading into the celestial room, I was walking several steps ahead of grand-pa when he stopped me and said: “Wait a moment, Allie, I want to tell you something. It was right here that the Lord Jesus Christ appeared to me at the time of the death of President Woodruff. He instructed me to go right ahead and reorganize the First Presidency of the Church at once and not wait as had been done after the death of the previous presidents, and that I was to succeed President Woodruff.”
“‘Then grand-pa came a step nearer and held out his left hand and said: “He stood right here, about three feet above the floor. It looked as though He stood on a plate of solid gold.”
“‘Grand-pa told me what a glorious personage the Savior is and described His hands, feet, countenance and beautiful white robes, all of which were of such a glory of whiteness and brightness that he could hardly gaze upon Him.
“‘Then he came another step nearer and put his right hand on my head and said: “Now, grand-daughter, I want you to remember that this is the testimony of your grand-father, that he told you with his own lips that he actually saw the Savior, here in the Temple, and talked with Him face to face”’” (LeRoi C. Snow, “An Experience of My Father’s,” Improvement Era, Sept. 1933, 677).


Now this account comes to us not through his testimony to a congregation, but through his grandaughter. Why is this? Many of our modern prophets allude to having seen the Savior, but do not directly testify of it. I do not know why other than to say that there were occasions when Christ instructed his Apostles of his day not to bear record of certain things.


Mark 9: 9
9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.

Every day, though I would imagine that my "prayers" are rather different than yours.


I would encourage you to kneel in your room, not leaning on anything, and offer up a vocal prayer to the Father in the name of Christ and ask him if Gordon B. Hinkley is his prophet, asking in a yes or no fashion. The Holy GHost will bear testimony to you.

Gaz
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_Coggins7
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Post by _Coggins7 »

So, do you believe the entire New Testament miracles story? If not, what are the limits of your belief?
If you believe the entire miracles story, how can you do so with no evidence?

Plutarch


Scratch:
As I already said, I don't really care. I think that the significance of those stories lies in their symbolic value, not in whether they are literally and historically true or not.



You see. Scratch, far from being a Mormon, as he keeps trying to tell me in post after post, isn't even a Christian in more general terms. Then we have the following:


I think the evidence is right there in your sentence, Gaz---i.e., "perceive." I don't think that God exists in a (sic) simply plane of existence that corresponds to all-too-human notions of "the real." God is thus both "symbolic" and "literal"; both "abstract" and "real." I see no reason why I should have to view God as "real" in the materialist's sense.



God does not exist in a "plane of existence" corresponding to "the real". At all events, what is apparantly being stated here is, not to put too fine a point on it, that God does not exist. That is, if there are "planes of existence", and God cannot be associated with any of them, and reality, or various realities, are associated with the various planes, then it follows that God is devoid of the property of being real, since he is not a part of the planes of reality that are themselves necessarily associated with some form of reality. Any other existing plane, if it does not correspond to some kind of substantive "reality", seems to be a logical self negation; a "plane of existence" that has no corresponding reality upon which that very plane can subsist.

Scratch is trying to be intellectual again. How cute.
_Mister Scratch
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Post by _Mister Scratch »

Coggins7 wrote:
So, do you believe the entire New Testament miracles story? If not, what are the limits of your belief?
If you believe the entire miracles story, how can you do so with no evidence?

Plutarch


Scratch:
As I already said, I don't really care. I think that the significance of those stories lies in their symbolic value, not in whether they are literally and historically true or not.



You see. Scratch, far from being a Mormon, as he keeps trying to tell me in post after post, isn't even a Christian in more general terms.


You are not even a decent, useful human being "in general terms".

Then we have the following:


I think the evidence is right there in your sentence, Gaz---i.e., "perceive." I don't think that God exists in a (sic) simply plane of existence that corresponds to all-too-human notions of "the real." God is thus both "symbolic" and "literal"; both "abstract" and "real." I see no reason why I should have to view God as "real" in the materialist's sense.
(Hey, dummy: you put your "sic" in the wrong place. If you're going to even try to correct me, at least get it right. You stupid Right-wing, uber-conservative racist hick.)


God does not exist in a "plane of existence" corresponding to "the real". At all events, what is apparantly being stated here is, not to put too fine a point on it, that God does not exist. That is, if there are "planes of existence", and God cannot be associated with any of them, and reality, or various realities, are associated with the various planes, then it follows that God is devoid of the property of being real, since he is not a part of the planes of reality that are themselves necessarily associated with some form of reality. Any other existing plane, if it does not correspond to some kind of substantive "reality", seems to be a logical self negation; a "plane of existence" that has no corresponding reality upon which that very plane can subsist.


Very well, Loran: go ahead and try to explain matters of faith using logic. Please provide a logical explanation for the existence of Two Cumorahs. Or Kolob. Or the appearance of Moroni to Joseph Smith. (Or Moroni's Promise, for that matter.) Good luck with that, you booze-sucking, mush-headed, inbred, cow-chip-tossing, Right-wing hayseed.

Scratch is trying to be intellectual again. How cute.


Loran is trying to pretend like he's got an education again. How predictable.

You claimed you were "done" dealing with me. You cannot even keep your word.
_Mister Scratch
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Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:13 pm

Re: Scratch

Post by _Mister Scratch »

Gazelam wrote:Question from Gaz: So despite all the words of the Prophets both modern and ancient, God is not physical? With this in mind, how do you view the doctrine of the resurrection? (Luke 24:36-53)


That's not what I said, Gaz. I view the doctrine of the resurrection as being largely metaphorical and abstract.

Please answer this question.

In what way is this "conference" "physical"? What is your evidence? Pres. Taylor's talk points out that this is a "heavenly treasure," which to my mind means that it is an abstraction. It is thus not "real" in the human sense. We may want it to be, for our own very corporeal and petty reasons, but that's what faith is for.


"The Holy Ghost . . . is different from the common Spirit of God, which we are told lighteth every man that cometh into the world. The Holy Ghost is only given to men through their obedience to the gospel of Christ; and every man who receives that Spirit has a comforter withen - a leader to dictate and guide him. This Spirit reveals, day by day, to every man who has faith, those things which are for his benefit. As Job said, "there is a spirit in man and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth it understanding." it is this inspiration of God to His children in every age of the world that is one of the necessary gifts to sustain man and enable him to walk by faith and to go forth and obey all the dictations and commandments and revelations which God gives to His children to guide and direct them in life." - Wilford Woodruff, JD 13:157, Dec. 12, 1869

That being said regarding the Gift of the Holy Ghost, the Holy Ghost himself is an independent being.

"The Holy Ghost, who is a member of the Trinity in the Godhead, has not a body of flesh and bones, like the Father and the Son, but is a personage of Spirit. . . .
The Holy Ghost as a personage of Spirit can no more be omnipresent in person than can the Father or the Son, but by his intelligence, his knowledge, his power and influence, over and through the laws of nature, he is and can be omnipresent throughout all the works of God. . . .
The Holy Ghost in person may visit men and will visit those who are worthy and bearwitness to their spirit of God and Christ but may not tarry with them. - Joseph F. Smith, IE 12:389-390, March, 1909

The Holy Ghost is God, and his presence withen a person has a sanctifying effect on a person and prepares both their spirit and their body for the ressurection. (D&C 88:11-41)


I don't see any question in there at all, Gaz.


Lol.... I don't think that Christ was continually involved in board meetings, or in overseeing the operations of what is, in essence, a multinational corporation. Let's face it: virtually all of the Brethren are either MBAs, or have some sort of experience with upper management. Christ's ministry did not resemble what the contemporary Brethren are doing at all, in my opinion. Further, until we are given an open and honest account of how much financial compensation the Brethren receive, I don't feel comfortable labeling what they do as "service."


Try Acts Chp. 5 for an example of the Apostles collecting titheing, or any number of other passages from the epistles for a sign of how the apostles met and instructed the various branchs of the church. And if they were spending all of their time in the service of the church, how do you think they sustained themselves? Tithes and offerings?


You are completely missing the point. Let's reverse this a bit: When was the last time one of the Brethren performed a miracle? Or actually communed with Christ? And where is the evidence?

No, I mean real, genuine revelation. Not their run-of-the-mill board meetings or prayer circles. When was the last time one of the Brethren actually proclaimed that he had seen Christ, or had a vision, like the Brethren during Joseph Smith's time used to do?


The last time I am aware of as to when Christ himself was seen is from the diary of Lorenzo Snows grandaughter Alice:

THE SAVIOR APPEARED TO HIM IN THE SALT LAKE TEMPLE
“For some time President Woodruff ’s health had been failing. Nearly every evening President Lorenzo Snow visited him at his home. This particular evening the doctors said that President Woodruff could not live much longer, that he was becoming weaker every day. President Snow was greatly worried. We cannot realize today what a terrible financial condition the Church was in at that time—owing millions of dollars and not being able to pay even the interest on its indebtedness.
“My father went to his room in the Salt Lake Temple, dressed in his robes of the Priesthood, knelt at the sacred altar in the Holy of Holies in the House of the Lord and there plead to the Lord to spare President Woodruff ’s life, that President Woodruff might outlive him and that the
great responsibility of Church leadership would not fall upon his shoulders. Yet he promised the Lord that he would devotedly perform any duty required at his hands. . . .
“. . . [On 2 September 1898, after receiving word of the death of Wilford Woodruff, President Snow] went to his private room in the Salt Lake Temple.
“President Snow put on his holy temple robes, repaired again to the same sacred altar, offered up the signs of the Priesthood and poured out his heart to the Lord. He reminded the Lord how he plead for President Woodruff ’s life to be spared, that President Woodruff ’s days would be lengthened beyond his own; that he might never be called upon to bear the heavy burdens and responsibilities of the Church. ‘Nevertheless,’ he said, ‘Thy will be done. I have not sought this responsibility but if it be Thy will, I now present myself before Thee for Thy guidance and instruction. I ask that Thou show me what Thou wouldst have me do.’
“After finishing his prayer he expected a reply, some special manifestation from the Lord. So he waited,—and waited—and waited. There was no reply, no voice, no visitation, no manifestation. He left the altar and the room in great disappointment. Passing through the Celestial room and out into the large corridor a glorious manifestation was given President Snow which I relate in the words of his grand-daughter, Allie Young Pond. . . .
“‘One evening while I was visiting grandpa Snow in his room in the Salt Lake Temple, I remained until the door keepers had gone and the night-watchmen had not yet come in, so grand-pa said he would take me to the main front entrance and let me out that way. He got his bunch of keys from his dresser. After we left his room and while we were still in the large corridor leading into the celestial room, I was walking several steps ahead of grand-pa when he stopped me and said: “Wait a moment, Allie, I want to tell you something. It was right here that the Lord Jesus Christ appeared to me at the time of the death of President Woodruff. He instructed me to go right ahead and reorganize the First Presidency of the Church at once and not wait as had been done after the death of the previous presidents, and that I was to succeed President Woodruff.”
“‘Then grand-pa came a step nearer and held out his left hand and said: “He stood right here, about three feet above the floor. It looked as though He stood on a plate of solid gold.”
“‘Grand-pa told me what a glorious personage the Savior is and described His hands, feet, countenance and beautiful white robes, all of which were of such a glory of whiteness and brightness that he could hardly gaze upon Him.
“‘Then he came another step nearer and put his right hand on my head and said: “Now, grand-daughter, I want you to remember that this is the testimony of your grand-father, that he told you with his own lips that he actually saw the Savior, here in the Temple, and talked with Him face to face”’” (LeRoi C. Snow, “An Experience of My Father’s,” Improvement Era, Sept. 1933, 677).

Now this account comes to us not through his testimony to a congregation, but through his grandaughter. Why is this? Many of our modern prophets allude to having seen the Savior, but do not directly testify of it. I do not know why other than to say that there were occasions when Christ instructed his Apostles of his day not to bear record of certain things.


Mark 9: 9
9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.


And....? This does nothing but re-emphasize my point above.

Every day, though I would imagine that my "prayers" are rather different than yours.


I would encourage you to kneel in your room, not leaning on anything, and offer up a vocal prayer to the Father in the name of Christ and ask him if Gordon B. Hinkley is his prophet, asking in a yes or no fashion. The Holy GHost will bear testimony to you.

Gaz


Ah, I see. You want to dictate how a person should pray. Don't you think that this is a matter best left between the individual and the Lord?
_Gazelam
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Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:06 am

Post by _Gazelam »

The question I wanted you to answer was regarding the resurrection. How do you see a physical resurrection as a metaphor? In what way is it abstract? Can you give me a simple commentary on Luke 24:36-53?


When was the last time one of the Brethren performed a miracle? Or actually communed with Christ? And where is the evidence?


I don't know, I don't follow the church news. I doubt they would widely publicise it if they did. Perhaps Rollo knows, he seems to follow the church news.


Ah, I see. You want to dictate how a person should pray. Don't you think that this is a matter best left between the individual and the Lord?


I am simply shareing with you the way to pray that I have found to be most effective. On my mission people were able to receive an answer to Moronis promise by praying this way as opposed to saying a silent quick prayer as they fell to sleep in their beds. Try it and see.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

I am simply shareing with you the way to pray that I have found to be most effective. On my mission people were able to receive an answer to Moronis promise by praying this way as opposed to saying a silent quick prayer as they fell to sleep in their beds. Try it and see.



The way you suggested may be ideal for some. However, we are also taught that we should pray wherever we can be alone and commune with God. That could be in our closets, our cars, etc.

For me, the quietest time I have to pray and reflect is on my 45 minute commute to work in the morning.

:)
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