Bill Maher's MAD brouhaha

[_Jersey Girl]

Liz,

I'd also like to know what you think/believe the purpose of the Mark of Cain was?

Jersey Girl

[_Yoda]

Thanks for pointing out this other reference, Jersey Girl. I'm going to pull a quote to make sure we're both looking at the same thing:

You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind. The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race-that they should be the "servant of servants;" and they will be, until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree. How long is that race to endure the dreadful curse that is upon them? That curse will remain upon them, and they never can hold the Priesthood or share in it until all the other descendants of Adam have received the promises and enjoyed the blessings of the Priesthood and the keys thereof. Until the last ones of the residue of Adam's children are brought up to that favourable position, the children of Cain cannot receive the first ordinances of the Priesthood. They were the first that were cursed, and they will be the last from whom the curse will be removed. When the residue of the family of Adam come up and receive their blessings, then the curse will be removed from the seed of Cain, and they will receive blessings in like proportion.

Take a look at the first section I bolded. It seems to me that the slavery Brigham Young is referring to here is not slavery in heaven, but the slavery which was existing during that particular time.

Also...take a look at the second bolded section. He is still being consistent about black people receiving the fullness of the blessings of the Priesthood, but it would happen after all of the descendents of Adam received their blessings.

I still think that Brigham Young was racist to a large degree...but I think this bigotry was a bi-product of the times. I'm not saying it was right. I'm just making an observation.

I don't, however, see anything here which indicates that Brigham Young actively taught that the only way a black person could enter heaven was as a servant. It looks like he was misquoted, or misunderstood.

Therefore, yes, I would have to respectfully disagree with your position on this one.

[_Jersey Girl]

Liz,

At what point in time would all the descendants of Adam do this? And where would the persons of color be/reside/exist before that happens?

Jersey Girl

[_Yoda]

Liz,

I'd also like to know what you think/believe the purpose of the Mark of Cain was?

Jersey Girl

OK...now we're getting into "the gospel according to Liz"....so I don't want any TBM's jumping down my throat. LOL I'm clearly stating that the following is MY personal opinion.

My understanding is that the purpose of the mark of Cain was for Cain's protection...period. Cain had killed his brother, Abel. He told the Lord that he was fearful of others harming him because of his sin. Therefore, the Lord placed a mark upon Cain(the darkening of his skin) as a form of protection, so that people from other civilizations would leave him alone.

[_Jersey Girl]

Liz,

I'd also like to know what you think/believe the purpose of the Mark of Cain was?

Jersey Girl

OK...now we're getting into "the gospel according to Liz"....so I don't want any TBM's jumping down my throat. LOL I'm clearly stating that the following is MY personal opinion.

My understanding is that the purpose of the mark of Cain was for Cain's protection...period. Cain had killed his brother, Abel. He told the Lord that he was fearful of others harming him because of his sin. Therefore, the Lord placed a mark upon Cain(the darkening of his skin) as a form of protection, so that people from other civilizations would leave him alone.

I agree with you!

Jersey Girl

p.s. When I look at the post I made that you are responding to....it appears blank!

[_Jersey Girl]

Any takers on the mixing seed/death and Joseph Smith as con man?

Jersey Girl

[_Yoda]

Liz,

At what point in time would all the descendants of Adam do this?

Jersey Girl

Obviously, Brigham Young had no idea. He never gave any type of a timeframe. It's also obvious he was wrong...since the Priesthood was given to the blacks in the 1970's.

Oh! Just saw your additional edit:

And where would the persons of color be/reside/exist before that happens?

Again, I don't think that Brigham Young had any idea. I think he was making things up as he went along, trying to make sense out of his own bigotry while trying to sound fair and equitable to all.

[_Mister Scratch]

Beastie---

An excellent account! I briefly read over that thread earlier today, but didn't get much further than the 3rd or 4th page before essentially giving up. In all honesty, the last couple of times I have looked at MAD, I have felt like I am looking at a board in the tertiary stages of its existence. Granted, things could change: DCP could return, along with Schryver, Will Hamblin, and others, but for now the fittingly named MADboard is in very bad shape.

And Wade: Are you serious?

I note the beasteological irony in whining about biased moderation in one breath, and then in the next breath leveling accusations about persecution complex.

You have for a very, very long time been trying rather desperately to defend the fittingly named MADboard, and participants on it whom you apparently idolize. Perhaps you should take your own advice, transferring it over to your defense of MAD:

Will it improve the human condition? Will it improve interfaith relations? Will it make each of us better people? Or, will it result in just the opposite?

Something to consider.

Something to consider indeed.

[_Jersey Girl]

Liz,

At what point in time would all the descendants of Adam do this?

Jersey Girl

Obviously, Brigham Young had no idea. He never gave any type of a timeframe. It's also obvious he was wrong...since the Priesthood was given to the blacks in the 1970's.

Oh! Just saw your additional edit:

And where would the persons of color be/reside/exist before that happens?

Again, I don't think that Brigham Young had any idea. I think he was making things up as he went along, trying to make sense out of his own bigotry while trying to sound fair and equitable to all.

Okay, thanks! I wonder if anyone on this board watched the actual show and can say if Maher ever expanded on this? I have no clue. But as you demonstrated, he really was off base on this one. I stand (sit) corrected!

Jersey Girl

[_Jersey Girl]

So...if a person is underinformed (or self corrected in the remainder of the broadcast) does that make them a bigot?

Jersey Girl