Is Belief a Choice?

[_Polygamy Porter]

In relation to Mormonism, it is more of a choice for non member adults than it is for children born into it.

Nothing binds like family ties.

[_truth dancer]

OK... IF belief is a choice,

Someone please tell me how to believe there are no oceans, or my family is just in my imagination, or I don't really need to eat or drink to survive?

I seriously do not understand the idea that we can just choose to believe what we want.

I'm open to learning here.... seriously! :-)

~dancer~

[_The Dude]

Believing isn't exactly something you choose to do. It's more like the end result of an endeavor that you choose to undertake, or not. That endeavor may involve rational truth seeking, like driving to the ocean and seeing if it's blood red. Or someone could teach you about irrational truth seeking: FAITH.

Irrational truth seeking says: "You don't need to drive to the ocean and see it, and seeking such a sign might actually lead you away from the truth. Just think about it and read what others have said, and pray a lot to know it's blood red. And if your eyes or other people try to tell you it's blue, don't worry about it, because that's just the plan of the evil one to lead you astray."

You may choose rational truth seeking -- or irrational truth seeking. You end up with beliefs.

[_Gazelam]

In every culture in the world are found people worshiping a God of one kind or another. The reason for this is simple. God is withen all things. We are upheld and living because of him, as also our world is held in its orbit by his word and power.

D&C 88:11-13
11 And the light which shineth, which giveth you light, is through him who enlighteneth your eyes, which is the same light that quickeneth your understandings;
12 Which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space—
13 The light which is in all things, which giveth life to all things, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things.

All of us were there in the preexistence to witness the chooseing of Christ as the great redeemer, and we all stood and made the choice to accept the plan of salvation and come here to work out our salvation. This is ingrained in our very souls, and the reason behind why people from every culture choose to worship a supreme being.

Gaz

[_Polygamy Porter]

In every culture in the world are found people worshiping a God of one kind or another. The reason for this is simple. God is withen all things. We are upheld and living because of him, as also our world is held in its orbit by his word and power.

D&C 88:11-13
11 And the light which shineth, which giveth you light, is through him who enlighteneth your eyes, which is the same light that quickeneth your understandings;
12 Which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space—
13 The light which is in all things, which giveth life to all things, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things.

All of us were there in the preexistence to witness the chooseing of Christ as the great redeemer, and we all stood and made the choice to accept the plan of salvation and come here to work out our salvation. This is ingrained in our very souls, and the reason behind why people from every culture choose to worship a supreme being.

Gaz

No. According to the story, the majority went with Jesus. If this were real and it was the other way around, you'd be defending your choice for Satan.

[_The Dude]

In every culture in the world are found people worshiping a God of one kind or another. The reason for this is simple....

Gazelam, I'm having a hard time seeing how your just-so-story engages the topic of this thread: Is belief a choice?

[_truth dancer]

Hey The Dude...

Believing isn't exactly something you choose to do. It's more like the end result of an endeavor that you choose to undertake, or not. That endeavor may involve rational truth seeking, like driving to the ocean and seeing if it's blood red. Or someone could teach you about irrational truth seeking: FAITH.

Irrational truth seeking says: "You don't need to drive to the ocean and see it, and seeking such a sign might actually lead you away from the truth. Just think about it and read what others have said, and pray a lot to know it's blood red. And if your eyes or other people try to tell you it's blue, don't worry about it, because that's just the plan of the evil one to lead you astray."

You may choose rational truth seeking -- or irrational truth seeking. You end up with beliefs.

This makes sense to me if one hasn't actually seen the blue ocean. If one has seen the blue ocean can they choose to truly believe the ocean is blood red?

In other words, I'll use the example Gaz has given us of the pre-mortal existence. No one has a clue so anyone can say anything and believe whatever they want. One guess is as good as another.

BUT... if one sees the blue ocean, has experienced the blue ocean first hand, how does one choose to believe the ocean is really red.?

It just seems impossible for me, to make myself believe something that goes completely against what is my reality.

Is it that one just chooses to believe what they know to be true is not? Or that their experience is a trick of Satan?

How can one manage in this sort of world? How can one trust anything? It is like you must ignore your understanding and awareness and come up with some sort of fantasy world that doesn't make any sense at all.

I just really don't get this. :-)

~dancer~

[_Who Knows]

Believing isn't exactly something you choose to do. It's more like the end result of an endeavor that you choose to undertake, or not. That endeavor may involve rational truth seeking, like driving to the ocean and seeing if it's blood red. Or someone could teach you about irrational truth seeking: FAITH.

Irrational truth seeking says: "You don't need to drive to the ocean and see it, and seeking such a sign might actually lead you away from the truth. Just think about it and read what others have said, and pray a lot to know it's blood red. And if your eyes or other people try to tell you it's blue, don't worry about it, because that's just the plan of the evil one to lead you astray."

You may choose rational truth seeking -- or irrational truth seeking. You end up with beliefs.

Well, that's kind of what i said in the beginning, that belief was "a conclusion" based on testing certain things.

Tell me this, after 'driving to the ocean and seeing if it's blood red', and seeing that it's actually blue, can you still choose to believe it's blood red?

In other words, after you have assessed the evidence, and arrived at a certain conclusion, can you 'choose' to believe otherwise?

I see what you're saying that choices put you on a certain path, ie., choosing faith vs. rational truth seeking. but once you're on that path, or at the end of that path, is your 'belief' still really a choice? I don't believe so.

Maybe it all comes down to probabilities. For example. I can choose to believe that if i flip a coin, it'll end up heads. However, i can't convince myself to 'choose' to believe that if i flip a coin, it'll be heads 10 times in a row. In other words, the less likely the probability of something, the less likely we are to be able to choose to believe something.

[Guest]

I think that this can also be equated a bit to hypnotism. Its basis is in making people follow a decision while at the same time bypassing their reasoning. If you talk to people that have been fully hypnotized and then ask them afterwards why they did something, invariably they will say "it made sense at the time". It was this specific subject that made me leave Mormonism. When i was studying hypnotism for alternative reasons, i found all the very small things that help to bypass the reasoning centers of the mind. I found many things that are very closely related to this within the methodology that Mormonism uses. As such, belief comes more from a misdirection of logical reasoning than that of choice.

[_The Dude]

Well, that's kind of what i said in the beginning, that belief was "a conclusion" based on testing certain things.

So we agree. There are choices involved in the testing, so indirectly, you can choose a path that will leave to belief. But you cannot directly choose to believe something.

Look: I can't choose to be dead. I can choose to hang myself, or drink poison, and I will likely end up dead, but I cannot directly choose to change from a living person to a dead corpse. It's impossible to simple choose a state change like that. So with belief.

Tell me this, after 'driving to the ocean and seeing if it's blood red', and seeing that it's actually blue, can you still choose to believe it's blood red?

In other words, after you have assessed the evidence, and arrived at a certain conclusion, can you 'choose' to believe otherwise?

Well, I think you can choose several irrational resolutions that will indirectly bring you to believe this. When you say "No I can't" you are just choosing to sidestep the irrational resolutions offered by faith. It is more natural to you, as it is to me, to be consistent, objective, and rational. The consequences of choosing a set of irrational resolutions would be like what TD said:

"How can one manage in this sort of world? How can one trust anything? It is like you must ignore your understanding and awareness and come up with some sort of fantasy world that doesn't make any sense at all. "

I don't think you can manage in this sort of world all by yourself. You've got to have someone set boundaries for you, to tell you when your irrational resolutions are taking you off the deep end. You'd have to become dependent on a church or a leader to tell you, "trust your eyes about X" and "don't trust your eyes about Y".