Is the Noachian Flood story plausible?

[_Bond...James Bond]

Anyone who has ever taken a history class on the Ancient Near East will inevitably come upon the various flood stories by the various civilizations in the Mesopotamian river valleys. The global flood is just a sensational myth that should be viewed allegorically but instead people taken seriously. The evidence just isn't there for a global flood.

[_Fortigurn]

Anyone who has ever taken a history class on the Ancient Near East will inevitably come upon the various flood stories by the various civilizations in the Mesopotamian river valleys. The global flood is just a sensational myth that should be viewed allegorically but instead people taken seriously. The evidence just isn't there for a global flood.

It's true that there is no evidence of a global flood. It's also true that none of the Ancient Near East flood narratives actually describe a global flood. The idea of a global flood has to be read into the text.

[_Bond...James Bond]

Fort,

Do you know of any "epic" flood stories for the river valleys of Asia?

[_truth dancer]

Here is the Genesis account:

1 And the LORD said unto aNoah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.
4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to arain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth. 5 And Noah adid according unto all that the LORD commanded him.
6 And Noah was asix hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.
7 ¶ And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons’ wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.
8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,
9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.
10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the aflood were upon the earth.
11 ¶ In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the afountains of the great deep bbroken up, and the cwindows of heaven were opened.
12 And the arain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah’s wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;
14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.
17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and ait was lift up above the earth.
18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
19 And the awaters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and ball the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and [b]aevery man:
22 All in whose nostrils was the abreath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.[/b]
23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

I truly don't see how this can be read as a local flood....

~dancer~

[Anonymous]

Fort,

Do you know of any "epic" flood stories for the river valleys of Asia?

There's are a couple of Chinese flood stories, but they aren't very old. There's an Indian flood story, but it only appears after Christianity had made its way to India, and appears to be an obvious reworking of the Biblical story (not a native flood story). There's an older Indian flood story, but it's very different to the flood stories of the Ancient Near East (the flood isn't caused by the gods, there is no appointed saviour, etc).

[_Fortigurn]

I truly don't see how this can be read as a local flood....

The culture and language of the Ancient Near East isn't the same as yours. The Sumerians referred to the Sumerian kingdom as 'the universe', despite being fully aware that there were territories outside the Sumerian kingdom. We wouldn't refer to our nation as 'the universe', because our culture and language is different. The Biblical flood story similarly uses language which to us sounds universal, but is not necessarily universal in application.

The following is a list of phrases used in the description of the flood, together with examples of them used elsewhere in a non-global sense:

• 'all flesh: Psalm 145:21, Isaiah 40:5; 66:23, Jeremiah 45:5, Ezekiel 20:48; 21:4, Joel 2:28
• 'under heaven': Mark 16:15, Colossians 1:23
• 'the face of the earth': Genesis 4:14; 41:56, Exodus 10:5, Numbers 11:31; 22:5, 11, Isaiah 23:17, Jeremiah 25:26, Ezekiel 34:5; 38:20
• 'The fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the wild beasts, all the things that creep on the ground', Ezekiel 38:20

Equivalent phrases also used in a non-literal sense include:

• Deuteronomy 2:25, 'all people under heaven'
• 1 Kings 18:20, 'every nation and kingdom'
• Ezekiel 38:20, 'The fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the wild beasts, all the things that creep on the ground, and all people who live on the face of the earth'
• Daniel 4:1; 5:19; 6:24, 'all peoples, nations, and language groups'
• Mark 16:15, Colossians 1:23, 'all creation'

[_Seven]

Here is the Genesis account:

1 And the LORD said unto aNoah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.
4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to arain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth. 5 And Noah adid according unto all that the LORD commanded him.
6 And Noah was asix hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.
7 ¶ And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons’ wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.
8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,
9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.
10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the aflood were upon the earth.
11 ¶ In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the afountains of the great deep bbroken up, and the cwindows of heaven were opened.
12 And the arain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah’s wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;
14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.
17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and ait was lift up above the earth.
18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
19 And the awaters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and ball the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and [b]aevery man:
22 All in whose nostrils was the abreath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.[/b]
23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

I truly don't see how this can be read as a local flood....

~dancer~

IF, the story of Noah is true, it had to be a global flood. The earth needed to be baptised. I have trouble accepting the story as literal, but the symbolism of it makes sense to me. If it was local, there was no point in the story.

[_Sethbag]

I do not think there is any remote possibility that there was a global food a few thousand years ago. in my opinion, there is not only NO evidence for such an event but there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that this is NOT the case.

I agree. There is, however, plenty of evidence for a Mesopotamian mega-flood around 2,900 BC, which is the timeframe of the Biblical flood. There is no need to read the Biblical flood account as global. Some early Jewish commentaries (such as Josephus), believed it was local in scope, not global.

It is actually necessary to address the likelihood of a global flood, because this is what the LDS church teaches. Here's an example of it. See especially the last little bit stating that the authenticity of the Genesis account of the Flood has been confirmed by modern-day revelation.

[_Fortigurn]

I do not think there is any remote possibility that there was a global food a few thousand years ago. in my opinion, there is not only NO evidence for such an event but there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that this is NOT the case.

I agree. There is, however, plenty of evidence for a Mesopotamian mega-flood around 2,900 BC, which is the timeframe of the Biblical flood. There is no need to read the Biblical flood account as global. Some early Jewish commentaries (such as Josephus), believed it was local in scope, not global.

It is actually necessary to address the likelihood of a global flood, because this is what the LDS church teaches. Here's an example of it. See especially the last little bit stating that the authenticity of the Genesis account of the Flood has been confirmed by modern-day revelation.

I don't mind people addressing a global flood, especially in the context of what the LDS teaches. I just wanted to point out that the Biblical text itself does not require a global reading.

IF, the story of Noah is true, it had to be a global flood. The earth needed to be baptised. I have trouble accepting the story as literal, but the symbolism of it makes sense to me. If it was local, there was no point in the story.

When you baptize people, you don't usually drown them.

[_Sethbag]

When you baptize people, you don't usually drown them.

Yeah, but if they stick their toe out of the water, you gotta do it again. ;-)