I will try not to offend!

[_Bond...James Bond]

ROTFL. Oh my. If we actually had dancing bananas, this is definitely the thread for them.

Did you say "dancing bananas"?

[_Sethbag]

Desert_Vulture, you're the GD teacher? ROFL. Too funny.

I got narced on last year by me home teacher, who told someone either in the bishopric or else my EQ president or something like that, and a few days later got an invite to go meet wit the bishop. I told him what my beliefs (and unbeliefs) are. He tried for a while to tell me how it really was, but it turns out he actually didn't know what I was even talking about, and as he realized I wasn't susceptible to the simplistic explanations he tried to give me, he basically gave up. I've met with him a couple times since then. I think he's willing to just leave well enough alone, so long as I don't go around telling anyone else about my beliefs. I go to Sacrament meeting pretty much every week, but the last two or three months I've taken to just going home after that. I have no callings at all, not even as home teacher. I'm pretty darn sure all the poobahs in the ward know my status, from the bishopric to the full EQ presidency. Interestingly, I'm pretty much left alone.

[_David A. Bednar]

My dear brother deseret_vulture:

God will not be mocked! Mark my words, my friend.

Forget the power of discernment. Why, we have the Strengthening the Members Committee. I have asked them to find out who you are. We will not suffer apostates to teach our Gospel Doctrine classes.

Though, I must admit here, that we (the 15 in the Quorum of the 12) are not too worried about who may be teaching our GD classes. We know that most in the class are sleeping anyway, even when it appears that their eyes are wide open (do you think we are all awake during our General Conferences?) You could tell them that Adam is God, and most of them will raise their hands to sustain your teachings. The correlation committee (God bless brother Daniel C. Peterson) has taken care of our old problem of lively discussions in class.

And, by the way, could you let me know who your Bishop is? I would like to have a word with him.

To Sethbag (how on earth did you come up with such a moniker?) and to the dude: It appears you will once again be allowed to participate on the church, er...I mean, the mad board. I have put in a good word for you and contacted the moderators there. They are willing to let bygones be bygones. But, remember, the tone, dear brothers, the tone. It's all in the tone. Don't forget Brother Joseph's moral relativity principle. I can't stress that enough. If they become offended by your words, they will be held accountable. You need not worry yourselves over this important principle.

Now, I want to speak a little bit about your temples. I feel impressed that some of you may have missed my message at Ricks, I mean, BYU-Idaho.

I now want to try and explain a principle that is fundamental to our knowledge about and understanding of the importance of a physical body. The principle is this: Our bodies are not our own.

Interestingly, I have heard many young people, both outside and inside of the Church, declare, “It’s my body and I can do to it what I want.” The correct doctrinal response to such a statement is quite simple. No, your body is not your own; it is a loaner from God.

Did you read carefully my message: Your body is a loaner. Remember that, my dear brothers and sisters.

Our physical bodies indeed are temples of God. Consequently, brothers and sisters, you and I must carefully consider what we take into our temple, what we put on our temple, what we do to our temple, and what we do with our temple. And we can learn a number of important lessons by comparing the Church’s temples to our physical bodies as temples.

I also refer you to your very own masturbation thread on your "telestial" forum. Don't do that to your temples. God will not be mocked.

I will visit you all again in the near future. Until then, adieu, my special ones. (One of the fifteen of the Quorum of the Twelve.)

[_Mr. Coffee]

Yeah, I'll accept the word of some random dweeb that believes in not just an invisable Sky Pixie, but also believes that some snapper head from backwater NY State discovered the word of aforementioned Invisable Sky Pixie by looking into a hat with his head covered as "Truth". You can hide behind your "dear brother" crap and that "I'm such a nice person" facade, but I am not buying.

Same thing to you that I tell every other purveyor of LDS retardation... I'm not buying, now get the hell off my land before I invoke the Castle Doctrine.

[_marg]

Thanks for the entertainment guys. And Bednar I think we've met. Sorry to have been a thorn in your side. I have a natural knack for that.

[_David A. Bednar]

Yeah, I'll accept the word of some random dweeb that believes in not just an invisable Sky Pixie, but also believes that some snapper head from backwater NY State discovered the word of aforementioned Invisable Sky Pixie by looking into a hat with his head covered as "Truth". You can hide behind your "dear brother" crap and that "I'm such a nice person" facade, but I am not buying.

Same thing to you that I tell every other purveyor of LDS retardation... I'm not buying, now get the hell off my land before I invoke the Castle Doctrine.

My dear brother, Mr. Coffee (you aren't Joe DiMaggio are you?). You clearly show signs of having been offended by someone, somewhere, somewhen. If it will help you by venting your anger out on me, then I will be here for you. I offer you the same as I did to the deseret_vulture: I am happy to visit your home and work out this simple misunderstanding so that you can once again enjoy fellowship with the Saints. Let me know what you think, O.K.?

It is no problem that you aren't buying, as you put it, because I am not selling anything. I offer you a way to repentance and forgiveness and fellowship with our wonderful brothers and sisters. For free. But you must make the first step. That is the understanding of agency. Carefully consider my counsel, for it is wise and scriptural, and therefore, true.

You should know that some of the 15 in the Quorum of the 12 don't believe that Joseph peered into a hat in order to translate the Book of Mormon. We are having heated discussions in our meetings about this at the present time. It seems to be as heated as when Brother B.H. and Brother Joseph Fielding went at it over the pre-Adamite concept. But, all will be well over time. Most of our members don't even know about the issue and we prefer to keep it that way. Not because we are hiding anything. Don't get me wrong. Rather, Brother Boyd is right that some things are simply not useful, whether true or not. I trust you can see the wisdom in this. Perhaps we can talk about it over some Postum when we visit together, Mr. Coffee.

Until then, feel free to contact me at any time. My door is always open. Stay in touch, won't you?

Again, a fond adieu.

Your brother in the harness.

[_David A. Bednar]

Thanks for the entertainment guys. And Bednar I think we've met. Sorry to have been a thorn in your side. I have a natural knack for that.

My Sister thorn-in-the-side. Perhaps we have met. Are you by chance one of the hundreds and hundreds with whom I have had the chance to sit and discuss the finer points of the Gospel? I sometimes forget everyone I have met in the past. Perhaps you could refresh my memory?

And there is no reason to apologise to me. It is only the Lord that you need be concerned with. May I ask you, if it is not too personal, how is your relationship with Him progressing? Is there anything I can do for you? If so, my door is always open. Feel free to come for a chat anytime. By the way, this idea that Brother Joseph and his family were atheists is a new one to me. Did you come up with that all by yourself?

And an adieu to you as well. I look forward to hearing from you soon, while you have some time before you become reunited with your family.

Your brother, as always, in the harness.

[_The Dude]

Your brother, as always, in the harness.

In the what? I have never heard this expression before.

[_marg]

Is there anything I can do for you?

Yes, I'm glad you asked. I deleted a previous post and replacing it with this one, because I think this is more important. I was reading tonight Pomeroy Tucker’s 1867 Origin of Mormonism @ http://solomonspalding.com/docs1/1867TucC.htm. I know he made mistakes so if anything I quote is a mistake in actual history let me know, but he got me thinking about the Holy Ghost which so many Mormons tell me is their way to knowledge.

As I was reading I came across some parts which I think presents some problems.

This was something Brigham Young was supposed to have said to a group of immigrants recently arrived in Utah

P218
. -- for those who, being Danes, French, and Swiss, cannot speak it now -- is to learn English; the language of God, the language of the Book of Mormon, the language of these latter days

Now David, English is a language which has evolved. From answer.com” Its history began with the migration of the Jutes, Angles, and Saxons from Germany and Denmark to Britain in the 5th and 6th centuries.” And even today English is different that in J. Smith's day and very much different than let's say 1,000 years ago. I don't get this that english is the language of God. If that’s the case why hasn't english as spoken today been around for a long time? I think Young was misinformed.


p 220 Young with regard to Black people

"While servitude may and should exist. and that too upon those who are naturally designed to occupy the position of servant of servants, yet we should not fall into the other extreme and make them as beasts of the field, regarding not the humanity that is in the colored race; nor elevating them, as some seem disposed, to an equality with those whom nature and nature's
God has indicated to be their masters, their superiors."

Shouldn’t Young have been better informed by the Holy Ghost that humans (ancestors of today) originally came out of Africa, that variations in appearance which we refer to as race are simply genetic mutations of isolated groups of people and that there is no group who should by virtue of color of skin be superior to another?


Then P 221 this is something I believe J. Smith wrote in a letter which was published 1844. Why wasn't the Holy Ghost around so that he wouldn't have made major blunders..prophecies which didn't come true?

"And now I am prepared to say, by the authority of Jesus Christ, that not many years shall pass away before the United States shall present such a scene of bloodshed as has not a parallel in the history of our nation; pestilence, hail, famine and earthquakes, will sweep the wicked of this generation from off the face of the land, to open and prepare the way for the return of the lost tribes of Israel from the north country. Therefore I declare unto you the warning which the Lord has commanded me to declare unto this generation, remembering that the eyes of my Maker are upon me, and that to him I am accountable for every word I say, wishing nothing worse to my fellow-men than their eternal salvation; therefore, 'fear God and give glory to him, for the hour of his judgment is come.' Repent ye, repent ye, and embrace the everlasting covenant, and flee to Zion before the overflowing scourge overtake you, for there are those now living upon the earth whose eyes shall not be closed in death until they see all these things which I have spoken fulfilled."

by the way…I came across site in my attempt to verify that above information..and it turns out Smith made many prophecies which didn’t come true. Where was this incredible Holy Ghost which supposedly makes man wise and imparts knowledge? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecies ... _Smith,_Jr.

Bednar the evidence indicates the Holy Ghost doesn’t work very effectively. If it fails prophets there is no reason to assume it won't fail the common member. If Smith and Young didn't have knowledge in areas they should have and yet they didn't know they were wrong then there is no reason to assume that anyone else would know by virtue of Holy Ghost, that they were wrong.

The evidence indicates this Holy ghost methodolgy if one can call it that is simply an unreliable method. It didn't work for the supposedly divinely connected , so it's not going to be a reliable means to knowledge for everyone else wthin the church.

[_David A. Bednar]

Your brother, as always, in the harness.

In the what? I have never heard this expression before.

Hello, my dear brother.

Maybe I can help you out with the idea of a "harness."

Apostates, like yourself, are considered to have "dropped out of the harness." While loyal followers of Christ are those considered to be "in the harness."

It's a beautiful image, is it not? All of us strapped in to the harness together, pulling the wagon (Church) to the promised land.

My Stake President, when I was a young student, was fond of this image and I think it is a perfect image to capture the beauty of the Gospel. I am surprised you haven't heard of it before.

The offer still stands to all of you who have dropped out of the harness, to come back, strap yourself in and get back to the work of the Gospel in these, the last days.

To my dear sister, Marg. Stay away from our young ones. With your arguments about Joseph Smith being a nighttime sheep stealer, we wouldn't have any kids, to grow up into tithe-payers, would we? And then how would we continue to buy nice real estate and build beautiful temples?

Also, about your new post: Brigham Young was the "Lion of the Lord." There is no question about that. About doctrine and what it is: well, I would talk to Brother BC Space. Now there is a brother who has a grasp on doctrine and scripture. Follow his advice, if you need peace in your soul.

He is definitely being groomed by the Lord, himself, to become one of the chosen 15 of the Quorum of the 12. All in due time. All in due time.

My offer stands for you to: when you wish to be strapped in to the harness and begin working toward the building up of the Kingdom of God in these, yes, even the latter days, my door is open.

Beware, my dear Sister Marg, for the time is nigh at hand, at least, within the next 400 years. The old grampa75 has at least got that right. But, don't buy in to his ideas of re-existence. That is clearly of the evil one, who lays in wait to deceive and drag your soul to hell.

I am sure we will enjoy still many more enjoyable discussions in the not too distant future. I would be happy to clear up any other doctrinal concerns you may have. All you need do is ask.

Your brother in the harness, yes, even David A. Bednar (one of the 15 of the Quorum of the 12)