LDS have nothing to discuss among themselves?

[_Jersey Girl]

Don't forget you're talking about a group of people who think that "when the prophet speaks, the thinking's been done".

The quote is "when the prophet speaks, the debate is over." It was made by Young Women's President Elaine Cannon in the 1978 Fall General Conference. This is the full quote:

In each country as you hear this program by direct line, your course should become clear, your priorities ought to be known to you as a daughter of God. Personal opinions may vary. Eternal principles never do. When the prophet speaks, sisters, the debate is over.

No, mak,

"Any Latter-day Saint who denounces or opposes whether actively or otherwise, any plan or doctrine advocated by the prophets, seers, revelators' of the church, is cultivating the spirit of apostacy. One cannot speak evil of the lord's annointed... and retain the holy spirit in his heart. This sort of game is Satan's favorite pastime, and he has practiced it to believing souls since Adam. He {Satan} wins a great victory when he can get members of the church to speak against their leaders and to do their own thinking."

"When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan--it is God's Plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give directions, it should mark the end of controversy, God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God."

Ward Teachers Message, Deseret News, Church Section p. 5, May 26, 1945
Also included in the Improvement Era, June 1945 (which was the official church magazine before the Ensign)"

http://www.lds-mormon.com/thinking.shtml

[_maklelan]

That's fine if you think my examples are bad. Since you are in the trenches, you probably know of some better examples and I hope you will share them for my enlightenment. Really, Maklelan, I wonder what you think Mormons are willing to argue about -- among themselves.

Lots of things. Many Latter-day Saints are insecure about a small handful of things, and they often discuss them with close friends. Usually they're not serious problems, but they feel uncomfortable when they don't have answers for everything. They won't share them in a place like this because they're not going to get any real help, just mostly a bunch of barracudas who smell blood.

Yeah, it's probably not because of church discipline. (I didn't say that, by the way.)

I know. I thought about mentioning that it was also a general response to the other concerns raised, but I decided not to. My fault for not being clear.

Looking stupid among the pseudo-intellectuals might be the thing they fear, or maybe they just aren't willing to think about it hard enough to come to a conclusion one way or another. Or maybe not willing, but they are so used to having faith on religious topics that they don't really know how to think hard about the issues. What do you think of that? Sometimes, maybe?

Definitely. I think a portion of the Latter-day Saint community (especially here in Utah) is unprepared to think critically about issues, which weakens their understanding of the gospel so that when something idiotic floats around, like this Evangelical DVD coming out on the 25th, they aren't prepared to deal with it. That's why I always speak honestly and critically (as in objectively, not criticism) to my quorum and in Sunday School. I don't like when EVs respond with "because it's in the Bible!" and I don't like when Mormons do the equivalent. When I joined the church I went to institute and saw a big sign in the front of the room that said "FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF." Ever since then I have done my best to find out all I can about the gospel, and I get tired of others saying they don't feel the need to. There's a quote in a building on campus that says "It is a sin to fail to acquire knowledge when you have the opportunity."

[_maklelan]

"Any Latter-day Saint who denounces or opposes whether actively or otherwise, any plan or doctrine advocated by the prophets, seers, revelators' of the church, is cultivating the spirit of apostacy. One cannot speak evil of the lord's annointed... and retain the holy spirit in his heart. This sort of game is Satan's favorite pastime, and he has practiced it to believing souls since Adam. He {Satan} wins a great victory when he can get members of the church to speak against their leaders and to do their own thinking."

"When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan--it is God's Plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give directions, it should mark the end of controversy, God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God."

Ward Teachers Message, Deseret News, Church Section p. 5, May 26, 1945
Also included in the Improvement Era, June 1945 (which was the official church magazine before the Ensign)"

http://www.lds-mormon.com/thinking.shtml

And who said that?

[_harmony]

"Any Latter-day Saint who denounces or opposes whether actively or otherwise, any plan or doctrine advocated by the prophets, seers, revelators' of the church, is cultivating the spirit of apostacy. One cannot speak evil of the lord's annointed... and retain the holy spirit in his heart. This sort of game is Satan's favorite pastime, and he has practiced it to believing souls since Adam. He {Satan} wins a great victory when he can get members of the church to speak against their leaders and to do their own thinking."

"When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan--it is God's Plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give directions, it should mark the end of controversy, God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God."

Ward Teachers Message, Deseret News, Church Section p. 5, May 26, 1945
Also included in the Improvement Era, June 1945 (which was the official church magazine before the Ensign)"

http://www.lds-mormon.com/thinking.shtml

And who said that?

You mean you don't know? What kind of apologist are you?

[_Fortigurn]

That's fine if you think my examples are bad. Since you are in the trenches, you probably know of some better examples and I hope you will share them for my enlightenment. Really, Maklelan, I wonder what you think Mormons are willing to argue about -- among themselves.

Lots of things. Many Latter-day Saints are insecure about a small handful of things, and they often discuss them with close friends. Usually they're not serious problems, but they feel uncomfortable when they don't have answers for everything. They won't share them in a place like this because they're not going to get any real help, just mostly a bunch of barracudas who smell blood.

An ironic statement, since that's what Sethbag experienced at MAD.

[_Fortigurn]

I think a portion of the Latter-day Saint community (especially here in Utah) is unprepared to think critically about issues, which weakens their understanding of the gospel so that when something idiotic floats around, like this Evangelical DVD coming out on the 25th, they aren't prepared to deal with it.

That's quotable.

[_bcspace]

The Mormons claim to not have a monolithic world view nor even (some say) a systematic theology.

That's not true. The Internet Mormons claim to have no systematic theology.

I claim we LDS have a systematic theology. I also claim there is no such thing as a differentiation between 'internet' and 'chapel' Mormons.

[_Jersey Girl]

"Any Latter-day Saint who denounces or opposes whether actively or otherwise, any plan or doctrine advocated by the prophets, seers, revelators' of the church, is cultivating the spirit of apostacy. One cannot speak evil of the lord's annointed... and retain the holy spirit in his heart. This sort of game is Satan's favorite pastime, and he has practiced it to believing souls since Adam. He {Satan} wins a great victory when he can get members of the church to speak against their leaders and to do their own thinking."

"When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan--it is God's Plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give directions, it should mark the end of controversy, God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God."

Ward Teachers Message, Deseret News, Church Section p. 5, May 26, 1945
Also included in the Improvement Era, June 1945 (which was the official church magazine before the Ensign)"

http://www.lds-mormon.com/thinking.shtml

And who said that?

I don't know who said it. The reference is given in the piece I posted. Would there be an online document of the Deseret News from 1945 online?

Jersey Girl

[_moksha]

The real porblem with twinkies is that creamy filling. It can get all over your face, on your hands, and sometimes, if you're not careful, it can get between your ears.

Coggins, quit talkin' dirty!

[_moksha]

"Any Latter-day Saint who denounces or opposes whether actively or otherwise, any plan or doctrine advocated by the prophets, seers, revelators' of the church, is cultivating the spirit of apostasy. One cannot speak evil of the lord's annointed... and retain the holy spirit in his heart. This sort of game is Satan's favorite pastime, and he has practiced it to believing souls since Adam. He {Satan} wins a great victory when he can get members of the church to speak against their leaders and to do their own thinking."

"When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan--it is God's Plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give directions, it should mark the end of controversy, God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God."

Ward Teachers Message, Deseret News, Church Section p. 5, May 26, 1945
Also included in the Improvement Era, June 1945 (which was the official church magazine before the Ensign)"

http://www.lds-mormon.com/thinking.shtml

And who said that?

I don't know who said it. The reference is given in the piece I posted. Would there be an on-line document of the Deseret News from 1945 on-line?
Jersey Girl

The salient point to this quote is that President George Albert Smith described that quote to a non-mormon friend as an unfortunate error - however the quote was allowed to stand. To me there is mixed truth to it. Have you not known some Mormons who basically have had all their thinking done for them, even before the Brethren speak? Likewise, haven't we all known Mormons who fiercely treasure their right to think for themselves? In that respect, I think we are just like the rest of humanity.