I changed my mind. Instead of telling you how I read the 1st chapter of John, I'm going to do an experiment. I'm going to see if I can get an atheist friend to tell me who they think the Word is in John. I hope having someone who hasn't been "indocrtinated" to a particular religion read the chapter and answer the question will give us an objective interpretation. Well...we'll see! I'll be back when I've been able to accomplish that!
Jersey Girl
I can tell you Jersey Girl that so far as this world is concerned the "WORD" stands for our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. However, on the eve of creation before man or anything else was on the scene, the WORD GOD was the first word spoken. The word GOD became sacred because of the fact that it was the beginning of all life as we know it. I believe for every world the scriptures would be nearly the same, and there will be another Savior for the next world and so on. The Savior for every world would stand for the word being made flesh. But it also means that when the spirit entity known as Intelligence spoke the first word, that Word was GOD, so when it is written, "In the beginning was the Word.' I personally believe that it stands for the one and only God for every earth after HE has been made flesh.
grampa75
You know, I always wondered where the expression, "The child is the father of the man" came from. This Adam-God theory extends the boundary. So this makes Mrs. God, Eve, Adam's clonal sister. With that ancestory, no wonder man was created in God's exact image, with a mystery X chromosome thrown in for reproductive purposes.
I never found any truth for myself, but the Holy Spirit has taught me, I believe, more than any man has the right to know. I only pray that we all begin to rely on all truth from the Holy Spirit and don't let any minister, preacher, apostle, Prophet, or evangelist, cause you to go astray by you simply not believing that the Holy Spirit can and will teach us.
Actually, like you, I decided to go right to the source and skip the teachings of those men who claim to know truth but yet whose "truth" did not resonate with my spirit and mind and personal revelation/inspiration/awareness.
As you suggest, I have found much peace following my heart and mind rather than trying to believe that which others claim to be true but which feel unholy or incorrect to me.
:-)
~dancer~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
I never found any truth for myself, but the Holy Spirit has taught me, I believe, more than any man has the right to know. I only pray that we all begin to rely on all truth from the Holy Spirit and don't let any minister, preacher, apostle, Prophet, or evangelist, cause you to go astray by you simply not believing that the Holy Spirit can and will teach us.
Actually, like you, I decided to go right to the source and skip the teachings of those men who claim to know truth but yet whose "truth" did not resonate with my spirit and mind and personal revelation/inspiration/awareness.
As you suggest, I have found much peace following my heart and mind rather than trying to believe that which others claim to be true but which feel unholy or incorrect to me.
Good post Dancer;
After I have communicated with the Holy Spirit, which is not so often as when I was a seveny in the Church, I have a tremendous feeling of peace and love fill my being. I know what God is now, he is the very essence of love. I can't understand why some religions actually believe in a hell that is everlasting fire where the wicked are cast and suffer throughout all eternity. I could not love a God like that personally. I know that when we commit the sin of murder that we ourselves have to be murdered either by the law or by another person to learn for ourselves how the victim feels. In my opinion we have to know or feel the victim's point of view to ever find forgiveness for anything we do. Of course I know that when we are baptized by one having authority and become the sons and daughters of a loving Father, he will forgive us for any and all that we have done in trespassing therein. grampa75
I never found any truth for myself, but the Holy Spirit has taught me, I believe, more than any man has the right to know. I only pray that we all begin to rely on all truth from the Holy Spirit and don't let any minister, preacher, apostle, Prophet, or evangelist, cause you to go astray by you simply not believing that the Holy Spirit can and will teach us.
Actually, like you, I decided to go right to the source and skip the teachings of those men who claim to know truth but yet whose "truth" did not resonate with my spirit and mind and personal revelation/inspiration/awareness.
As you suggest, I have found much peace following my heart and mind rather than trying to believe that which others claim to be true but which feel unholy or incorrect to me.
Good post Dancer;
After I have communicated with the Holy Spirit, which is not so often as when I was a seveny in the Church, I have a tremendous feeling of peace and love fill my being. I know what God is now, he is the very essence of love. I can't understand why some religions actually believe in a hell that is everlasting fire where the wicked are cast and suffer throughout all eternity. I could not love a God like that personally. I know that when we commit the sin of murder that we ourselves have to be murdered either by the law or by another person to learn for ourselves how the victim feels. In my opinion we have to know or feel the victim's point of view to ever find forgiveness for anything we do. Of course I know that when we are baptized by one having authority and become the sons and daughters of a loving Father, he will forgive us for any and all that we have done in trespassing therein. grampa75
I apologize for not getting back to you sooner, I wasn't feeling well. Here are the comments on John 1 from my atheist friend, let me know what you think of them! I have not given the name of the person but I did give them a link to this board. Should they choose to register and comment here, I will give the correct cite. Otherwise, I will leave them to their privacy elsewhere.
The Word is not a who......but more precisely, a what. The Word is sort of a synonym for a celestial or heavenly answer sheet that explains everything that ever was, is now, or ever will be. It is the answer to primary questions about human importance or meaning in the universe and our place in it.
Many religions have holy books that supposedly are prophetical translations of this sheet sans the mostly inaccurate history recorded therein. However, I suspect that the explicit Word is not known by anyone, only versions thereof imagined by many to suit there own view of what they think it is, along with some myth and superstition thrown in to bolster and prop up their preconceived notions. Moses' tablets are one attempt at the Word, however I suspect are an understandably over simplification of a more complex issue. I don't think the Word is really connected to organized religion directly. If it were, there would be only one religion and a God would demonstrably manifest the Word openly.
It is impossible for us modern day humans to place ourselves in the days of the likes of Jesus and John and the political turmoil and human disrespect that they were faced with in their daily lives. John recognized Jesus of Nazareth as an extraordinary forward thinker and God like in his mental prowess and common sense approach, which was not so common in those times, in solving social, religious and adverse political problems of the day.
Only in Heaven, would the Word be truely known, of which Jesus promised for everyone, only if they would believe. John and others were solidly convinced of this and preached their heads off, in the attempt to get all to recognize and follow Jesus as this remarkable individual who seems to very convincingly, know the way.
Jesus fit the predictions of Moses and other ancients, of a Messiah, with his abilities and comforting answers, and what with the Romans nailing up anything that moved or even talked against their iron rule, his timing and birth were perfect for the times as a predicted saviour for suffering peoples.
As an Atheist, the concept of the Word, as it pertains to living with respect for others and a guideline for human decency and good will towards all, the message is still the same, whether you believe in God or not.
That, in a Word, is the bottom line
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Jersey Girl wrote:I'm having a hard time understanding your post. Could you tell me who you think the WORD was?
That would help me get started.
Jersey Girl
Jersey, this guys off in lalaland. Nothing here but stories about the three nephites coming to the county fair in central utah and lamanite warriors guarding the temple against evil tax collectors.
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
If Adam was "God", then who was the guy at the begining of Genesis that did the whole "let there be light" schtick?
Also, is there a Canon Policy for LDS? I mean, it seems to me you guys seem to say "screw the Old Testiment/New Testiment" whenever it contradicts any Mormon scriptures.
From Bruce R. McConkie's talk "Seven Deadly Heresies"
Heresy six: There are those who believe or say they believe that Adam is our father and our god, that he is the father of our spirits and our bodies, and that he is the one we worship.
The devil keeps this heresy alive as a means of obtaining converts to cultism. It is contrary to the whole plan of salvation set forth in the scriptures, and anyone who has read the Book of Moses, and anyone who has received the temple endowment, has no excuse whatever for being led astray by it. Those who are so ensnared reject the living prophet and close their ears to the apostles of their day. "We will follow those who went before," they say. And having so determined, they soon are ready to enter polygamous relationships that destroy their souls.
We worship the Father, in the name of the Son, by the power of the Holy Ghost; and Adam is their foremost servant, by whom the peopling of our planet was commenced.
End of story. I believe Brigham may have been misreading a text in the Kabbalah, and that he got his idea from there, that's if I am reading what he said correctly and what I understand is taught in the Kabbalah texts.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
Gazelam wrote:From Bruce R. McConkie's talk "Seven Deadly Heresies"
Heresy six: There are those who believe or say they believe that Adam is our father and our god, that he is the father of our spirits and our bodies, and that he is the one we worship.
The devil keeps this heresy alive as a means of obtaining converts to cultism. It is contrary to the whole plan of salvation set forth in the scriptures, and anyone who has read the Book of Moses, and anyone who has received the temple endowment, has no excuse whatever for being led astray by it. Those who are so ensnared reject the living prophet and close their ears to the apostles of their day. "We will follow those who went before," they say. And having so determined, they soon are ready to enter polygamous relationships that destroy their souls.
We worship the Father, in the name of the Son, by the power of the Holy Ghost; and Adam is their foremost servant, by whom the peopling of our planet was commenced.
End of story. I believe Brigham may have been misreading a text in the Kabbalah, and that he got his idea from there, that's if I am reading what he said correctly and what I understand is taught in the Kabbalah texts.
So, Gazelam, if Brigham Young taught heresy as doctrine (and indeed included it in the temple lecture), does that have any bearing on his calling as a prophet? Are we similarly under no obligation to accept anything he taught?