Blessings of Tithing?

[_Mister Scratch]

There is no such thing as a "direct" benefit/blessing from the paying of tithing (unless you want to count "feeling the spirit" as a blessing/benefit). I defy anyone---TBM or otherwise---to demonstrate that tithing has led to any kind of legitimate benefit/blessing. I suppose one could argue that the SLC mall is a "benefit," but then again, that would entail admitting that tithing was used to pay for it... Oh, well!

When I first joined the church I was way in debt. I struggled with tithing for a while. When I finally payed it, including all the back-tithing from since I got baptized. It hurt me a lot. A few days before some substantial bills were due I had absolutely nothing and no way of getting money to pay any of those bills. Out of nowhere I get a check in the mail from my grandmother. My birthday had come and gone long before, but she suddenly just decided she was going to start sending me money again for my birthday, and she was going to start by making up for the birthday I had earlier that year.

Well then, you've just proved my point. Your upturn of fortune was not the result of your tithe, but rather it was the result of your grandmother's generosity.

I've payed my tithing faithfully since then

Here is an important question for you: Did you [b]expect[/u] to receive a blessing of some kind as "payment" for your tithe? I.e., were you looking for things (such as your grandma's generosity) which could somehow be linked up to your tithing payments?

and I've only had one real problem since: A few months after I got married my wife and I were severely behind in our bills. She had been in and out of the hospital a few times and doctor bills were piling up. Both of us were going to school and couldn't work much. A few big bills were looming, but we used virtually all of our money to pay a few weeks of tithing we had missed. One day out of nowhere a professor comes up to me and asks me if I knew who drew the poster for the Students of the Ancient Near East club. I said I drew it a long time ago and he asks me if I wanted to illustrate a book for him. He paid me well and we got the money two days before those bills were due. I've worked part time illustrating books for three different professors ever since.

You guys can say what you want about tithing, but there's nothing in heaven or on earth that will ever convince me that it is not an enormous and completely real blessing.

Ah, well then, that settles it. Are you not the same guy who was scolding me for "appeals to emotion" on another thread? ; )

As long as I've payed my tithing the money has shown up, whether it be by mundane or miraculous means.

Nothing you have described could be legitimately labeled "miraculous."

[_Runtu]

Just last month my wife had some unexpected major dental work, and I was going to have to go into debt to pay for it. A couple of days before her appointment, I got a letter from my employer telling me that I was receiving $1500 for having referred someone for employment 6 months ago. If I were a tithe-payer, I might describe this as a miraculous blessing. But it was just a coincidence. It did, however, more than cover the dental work.

[_Jason Bourne]

There is no such thing as a "direct" benefit/blessing from the paying of tithing (unless you want to count "feeling the spirit" as a blessing/benefit). I defy anyone---TBM or otherwise---to demonstrate that tithing has led to any kind of legitimate benefit/blessing. I suppose one could argue that the SLC mall is a "benefit," but then again, that would entail admitting that tithing was used to pay for it... Oh, well!

I can do that!! You get a TAX DEDUCTION!

Well, you can get that if you give it to another charity too.

One thing, I do not think anyone teaches that there will be a direct dollar blessing or benefit from paying tithe. Some may believe they got some sort of monetary blessing but the Church does not say pay and expect God to give you money.

[_SatanWasSetUp]

There is no such thing as a "direct" benefit/blessing from the paying of tithing (unless you want to count "feeling the spirit" as a blessing/benefit). I defy anyone---TBM or otherwise---to demonstrate that tithing has led to any kind of legitimate benefit/blessing. I suppose one could argue that the SLC mall is a "benefit," but then again, that would entail admitting that tithing was used to pay for it... Oh, well!

When I first joined the church I was way in debt. I struggled with tithing for a while. When I finally payed it, including all the back-tithing from since I got baptized. It hurt me a lot. A few days before some substantial bills were due I had absolutely nothing and no way of getting money to pay any of those bills. Out of nowhere I get a check in the mail from my grandmother. My birthday had come and gone long before, but she suddenly just decided she was going to start sending me money again for my birthday, and she was going to start by making up for the birthday I had earlier that year. I've payed my tithing faithfully since then and I've only had one real problem since: A few months after I got married my wife and I were severely behind in our bills. She had been in and out of the hospital a few times and doctor bills were piling up. Both of us were going to school and couldn't work much. A few big bills were looming, but we used virtually all of our money to pay a few weeks of tithing we had missed. One day out of nowhere a professor comes up to me and asks me if I knew who drew the poster for the Students of the Ancient Near East club. I said I drew it a long time ago and he asks me if I wanted to illustrate a book for him. He paid me well and we got the money two days before those bills were due. I've worked part time illustrating books for three different professors ever since.

You guys can say what you want about tithing, but there's nothing in heaven or on earth that will ever convince me that it is not an enormous and completely real blessing. As long as I've payed my tithing the money has shown up, whether it be by mundane or miraculous means.

What you're describing here sounds like a form of communism. "we used virtually all of our money to pay a few weeks of tithing we had missed" It sounds like you give your money to the church then wait for them to take care of you. It reminds me of members who get welfare from the church. The church expects them to pay their tithing, then the church provides them with food from the storehouse. Why not give the money back to the member and let them take care of themselves? As has been pointed out in other posts on this thread, people get unexpected money, bonuses, raises, new jobs, etc. all the time. It's what keep the economy moving forward. It happens every day all across the country, yet very few people are Mormon.

[_Inconceivable]

Yeah. It happened to my wife and I. We really didn't know how badly we had it because we were eating - using our dry food storage. Life was difficult. I didn't spend a lot of time with my kids & wife. But we paid our tithing and somehow there was just enough money to break even at the end of the month.

For the last 20+ years I always considered this phenomenon a proof of belief - although it has never been like the "window of heaven" have poured down more blessings I can handle. No, I've had no problem handling them. No Nephite syndrome here.

We've been doing just fine for the last 10 years but my job still drives a wedge between me and family.

That being said, what do you think of the "law of attraction"? I saw a DVD on "The Secret" from the Rosecrucian Society this past year. Makes sense. Maybe that's why we would only break even after paying tithing because that's what we were focussing on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_%282006_film%29

[_harmony]

There is no such thing as a "direct" benefit/blessing from the paying of tithing (unless you want to count "feeling the spirit" as a blessing/benefit). I defy anyone---TBM or otherwise---to demonstrate that tithing has led to any kind of legitimate benefit/blessing. I suppose one could argue that the SLC mall is a "benefit," but then again, that would entail admitting that tithing was used to pay for it... Oh, well!

I can do that!! You get a TAX DEDUCTION!

Well, you can get that if you give it to another charity too.

One thing, I do not think anyone teaches that there will be a direct dollar blessing or benefit from paying tithe. Some may believe they got some sort of monetary blessing but the Church does not say pay and expect God to give you money.

Actually, the church says to NOT expect God to give you money. What they say is the windows of heaven will be opened and the blessings of God will rain down upon you (or something like that). Too often, members interpret that to mean they'll get money. More often, though, what comes is non-monetary blessings (like being able to attend the temple, feeling like you're part of the Kingdom, feeling like you've helped build the Kingdom, etc), but those don't make for good stories, so people latch onto the money stories, even though they are likely misattributing the root cause of the money coming.

What the church says is: 1. Pay your tithing. 2. Save. 3. Get Out of Debt. 4. Live within your means. All sound financial advice. Maybe not in that order, but still, sound financial advice. Especially #3 and #4.

Unfortunately, too many people are like Maklelan, and when something fortuitous happens (like his grandma sending him money or his professor giving him a job), they attribute it to the wrong source. Mak's little surprises didn't come from God; one came from his grandma and later, another from his professor. Now Mak could argue that God influences his grandma and/or his professor, but that wouldn't necessarily mean the influence was because he paid his tithing. There could be many other reasons why God would influence those two people.

[_ajax18]

What the church says is: 1. Pay your tithing. 2. Save. 3. Get Out of Debt. 4. Live within your means. All sound financial advice. Maybe not in that order, but still, sound financial advice. Especially #3 and #4.

That's sort of my question. What order does the Church teach it? It seems like you really can't do the first three all at once.

Unfortunately, too many people are like Maklelan, and when something fortuitous happens (like his grandma sending him money or his professor giving him a job), they attribute it to the wrong source. Mak's little surprises didn't come from God; one came from his grandma and later, another from his professor. Now Mak could argue that God influences his grandma and/or his professor, but that wouldn't necessarily mean the influence was because he paid his tithing. There could be many other reasons why God would influence those two people.

I understand your point, but what is wrong with the idea that perhaps God works through people to answer the prayers of others? I've been able to do things for people in the past that they later confided in me that they were praying for. Most answers, if not all answers to my prayers, have come through other people.

[_harmony]

I understand your point, but what is wrong with the idea that perhaps God works through people to answer the prayers of others? I've been able to do things for people in the past that they later confided in me that they were praying for. Most answers, if not all answers to my prayers, have come through other people.

Nothing at all wrong with the idea that God works through people to answer prayers, but that's not what paying tithing is about. Perhaps Mak's grandmother had been asking for an opportunity to bless someone, and God told her to send Mak a check. Perhaps Mak's professor had been deperately praying for someone to help him illustrate his book, and God directed him to Mak. In those cases, neither encounter had anything to do with Mak paying his tithing.

[_SatanWasSetUp]

There is no such thing as a "direct" benefit/blessing from the paying of tithing (unless you want to count "feeling the spirit" as a blessing/benefit). I defy anyone---TBM or otherwise---to demonstrate that tithing has led to any kind of legitimate benefit/blessing. I suppose one could argue that the SLC mall is a "benefit," but then again, that would entail admitting that tithing was used to pay for it... Oh, well!

I can do that!! You get a TAX DEDUCTION!

Well, you can get that if you give it to another charity too.

One thing, I do not think anyone teaches that there will be a direct dollar blessing or benefit from paying tithe. Some may believe they got some sort of monetary blessing but the Church does not say pay and expect God to give you money.

Yeah, I know a lot of bishops and others who joke about it being a great tax deduction, but that's not true either. The standard deduction for single people is around $10,000, for married it's about $13,000. If you don't have a mortgage, and don't make 6 figures, you probably won't itemize anyway. Even if you do itemize, your tax savings will be less than your tithing payments. It's like paying someone $10 to get $3 back. It's no wonder Utah leads the nation in bankruptcies.

[_Bryan Inks]

I understand your point, but what is wrong with the idea that perhaps God works through people to answer the prayers of others? I've been able to do things for people in the past that they later confided in me that they were praying for. Most answers, if not all answers to my prayers, have come through other people.

Nothing, except it is about as logically sound as The Intelligent Falling theory.

It goes hand in hand with Inconceivable's post.

Your outlook determines your reality. No arguments against it, you find what you are looking for.

The concept of prayer was designed to get that powerful tool, you subconcious mind, thinking about your problems. That's it. Prayer put you into a state of mind in which you were more likely to accept the answer that your subconscious provided.

So, if you are "praying" about someone mowing your lawn for you, because you just got out of surgery. . . guess what? Yup, anyone mows your lawn, you attribute it to God. Unfortunately, it does kind of break down a bit. "Sister So-and-So just got out of surgery. Young Men, I want two of you to go to her house every other week and mow her lawn."

From God? Or from a neighbor who found out about your incapacitated state and wants to help?

Being a firm believer in the power of the mind and the Law of Attraction, my only problem with The Secret is that while a decent introduction to the concept, they promote the Law of Attraction as being this quasi-mystical event. When in reality, it is merely your mind finding and pointing out things that you have been focusing on. A very good example of this, take a look around the room you are sitting in right now. Just for 30 seconds. Now close your eyes and recite back everything you saw. At max, you can around 150. But are there only 150 things to notice? It sounds stupid to have to right it out, but you see the things you look at.

Does The Secret work? Debatable. Try it on something completely mundane. I tried it on green traffic lights. I hate waiting in traffic. So, rather than focusing on "No Red Lights" (because your subconscious cannot understand a negative), I focused on "Just Green Lights". I haven't sat at a traffic light for longer than 30 seconds since I started this. Now, I argue that this is as much a product of the The Secret as it is me conditioning myself. Do I honestly believe that I haven't been stuck for longer? No. But I can rationalize those few times away, in the same manner as someone's Blessing from Tithing.