Fortigurn wrote:It's a startling statistic, but I do think we should explore the concept that suicide is a legitimate life choice, and that those who take that choice willingly most frequently do so for reasons they understand better than we do. It's important that people find their own reconciliation with their inner self, especially if it grants them what they feel they need, and it's not harming anyone else. I do think that suicide is given a very bad press, when far more destructive behaviours are given societal approval.
I'm trying to wrap my mind around suicide being a legitimate life choice. Suicide is not an acceptable choice for a teenage as far as I'm concerned. Suicide for the terminally ill is a completely different issue, but teen suicide is totally unacceptable, at least that's my opinion.
I'm with you on this one. It's a pretty destructive behavior if you ask me.
I'm not denying that it's destructive behaviour, I'm suggesting that it's a legitimate life choice like any other. I think the modern secular world is very superstitious about death (our burial rituals are almost as elaborate as the Egyptians, and like them we frequently practice embalming and the preservation of corpses in various ways), and suicide has a shocking stigma attached to it. Perhaps it's the product of capitalism, the outrage expressed towards a member of society who deprives others of their work (and therefore profit).
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Fortigurn wrote:I'm not denying that it's destructive behaviour, I'm suggesting that it's a legitimate life choice like any other. I think the modern secular world is very superstitious about death (our burial rituals are almost as elaborate as the Egyptians, and like them we frequently practice embalming and the preservation of corpses in various ways), and suicide has a shocking stigma attached to it. Perhaps it's the product of capitalism, the outrage expressed towards a member of society who deprives others of their work (and therefore profit).
I think it's probably more to the loss that family and loved ones experience that it is such a destructive behavior. One's work is replaceable; one's life is not.
One thing to keep in mind is that Utah has a large number of teens under the covenant of baptism. The age of accountability is eight years. As eight were saved by water at the time of the great flood. There are many temptations for our youth today, and the withdrawal of the Holy Ghost's constant companionship during the commission of sin will many times lead to depression which could lead eventually to suicide. This is a call for all of us to understand how important it is to magnify our callings in the youth programs.
Tommy wrote:One thing to keep in mind is that Utah has a large number of teens under the covenant of baptism. The age of accountability is eight years. As eight were saved by water at the time of the great flood. There are many temptations for our youth today, and the withdrawal of the Holy Ghost's constant companionship during the commission of sin will many times lead to depression which could lead eventually to suicide. This is a call for all of us to understand how important it is to magnify our callings in the youth programs.
Depression is not caused by the withdrawal of the spirit, whether due to sin or any other factor. We can magnify our callings all we want, and we will have no effect on depression. Your post shows a profound misunderstanding of emotional and psychological disorders.
I understand that there may in fact be a physical cause behind the depression. But are not our spirits intertwined with our bodies? Can not a disease of the spirit lead to a disease of our mortal tabbernacle?
If the cause is purely physical, it's interesting that there is such a high concentration in one place.
Fortigurn wrote:I'm not denying that it's destructive behaviour, I'm suggesting that it's a legitimate life choice like any other.
I don't know what "legitimate life choice" means, but I guess if I were asked to define it, I would start by eliminating things that it's NOT. Like suicide.
So from your POV, what's something that's NOT a legitimate life choice?
I think the modern secular world is very superstitious about death (our burial rituals are almost as elaborate as the Egyptians, and like them we frequently practice embalming and the preservation of corpses in various ways), and suicide has a shocking stigma attached to it.
That's another strange thing you say. Religion is very superstitious about death... but you say the secular world is superstitious? I dunno. Enough secular people are fine with cremation and sprinkling ashes over some place of sentimental significance... that's me anyway. I don't think that's superstitious at all.
I understand that there may in fact be a physical cause behind the depression. But are not our spirits intertwined with our bodies? Can not a disease of the spirit lead to a disease of our mortal tabbernacle?
If the cause is purely physical, it's interesting that there is such a high concentration in one place.
I must agree with Brother Monson on this issue. Suicide is a tool of the Adversary. With so many young people in the state of Utah baptised members of the one true church, the Adversary works especially hard here. I suspect a large number of these suicide victims were chronic masturbators. Tinkering with the delicate mechanisms of your little factory leads to great guilt, as it should, for it is an abomination, even a sin second only to murder, or at the very least a Top 5 sin. Such guilt weighs heavily on a young soul, and too often rather than confessing this sin to proper church authorities, and beginning the repentence process, which can include everything from forcing the sinner to wear cotton mittens to electroshock therapy, the sinner allows the Adversary to convince him to commit suicide, thinking it is the easier way out. I counsel all ye who fiddle with your little factories to confess your sins, and begin the repentence process. The repentence process is long and hard (no pun intended), but I never said it would be easy, I only said it would be worth it.
I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.
Now that the Deseret News has described the problem so emphatically, I hope it can be addressed in a meaningful way. With the Governor's wife lending her support, perhaps the legislature will be more receptive. If the Church would only come out and urge the legislature to adequately fund the mental health system to address this issue, it would be a very positive step in the right direction.
Boyd_K_Packer wrote:I suspect a large number of these suicide victims were chronic masturbators. Tinkering with the delicate mechanisms of your little factory leads to great guilt....
All jokes aside, Boyd, I think there's something to what you are saying here. It's hard enough for young people, without pompous jackasses like you telling them their bodily urges are dirty and sinful.
Now that the Deseret News has described the problem so emphatically, I hope it can be addressed in a meaningful way. With the Governor's wife lending her support, perhaps the legislature will be more receptive. If the Church would only come out and urge the legislature to adequately fund the mental health system to address this issue, it would be a very positive step in the right direction.