Let’s say some tourists were leaving Temple Square and they decided to visit Boyd’s LDS bookstore at the behest of the missionaries who were working at the information desk. They are driving down the road and they see someone holding up a sign that says “Boyd’s bookstore - turn right after McDonalds” and then later they see someone else with another sign that says “Boyd’s bookstore - two blocks on the left.” Let’s assume that everywhere throughout the city there are people holding up signs, directing people to Boyd’s bookstore. Yet, all signs actually lead the people to the Tanner’s bookstore.
Is there anything “illegal” in this? No.
Are any “rights” being violated? No.
Has anyone lost money? No
Has anyone been physically harmed? No
Has Boyd’s bookstore been in any way censored or silenced? No.
Has anyone been WRONGED?
Absolutely! Everyone who had been trying to reach their destination was wronged when someone started redirecting them to another location. Not just any location, but the opposite location. This is like trying to reach an AA meeting and being redirected to a liquor store.
Many people would be pissed off. When people type in savegrantpalmer.com they do not want to be directed to some lame “parody.” When people type in www.utahlighthouse.com it is safe to say that they are trying to get to a specific place on the web. Allen thinks it is perfectly OK for him to jump in front of them and deceive them, so long as he isn’t breaking any laws, he isn’t silencing the Tanners, he isn’t costing them money, and he isn’t physically harming anyone. Apparently so does DCP.
Wyatt & Fair Defeat Utlm And Sandra Tanner
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_the road to hana
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 1485
- Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:35 pm
dartagnan wrote:Obviously unethical and illegal are not synonymous as Allen would have us believe.
Indeed. Worse yet is that others seem to be able to distinguish right from wrong in this situation.
It should have brought him the condemnation of peers who sought truth and righteousness, and not applause, all of which speaks volumes regarding strength of character or lack thereof.
The road is beautiful, treacherous, and full of twists and turns.
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_Infymus
- _Emeritus
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- Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:10 pm
Let FAIR gloat about it. Allen Wyatt is a snake and will not hesitate to back stab, lie, cheat or steal in order to protect Mormonism.
Allen Wyatt registered the sites with similar names to the UTLM. Allen Wyatt stole the UTLM website layout (HTML), changed the links to "Pro" Mormon material, and placed the copied site onto his new registered sites.
The sole purpose: Lying for the Lord. Trick persons who know nothing of Mormonism into "Milk before Meat". Mormons want you to learn about Mormonism from them, not anyone else. That way they can carefully hide all of the ghosts in the closet until it is much too late. Investigators are stealthily lead into accepting assumptions about God and his plan for man and the need for leadership / authority / priesthood on earth. Don't ask, don't tell.
If you look at the SLTRIB article, you see that perhaps UTLM didn't have a way of suing Allen Wyatt without using the cyber squatting angle. In the end, that angle didn't pan out because Wyatt (while not obviously) didn't benefit in a monetary way by doing what he did.
Oh, and alleging that Allen knew nothing of what was being done is ludicrous.
On February 8th, 2006, Allen's new ploy was the "More Good Foundation", along with Mr. Obfuscation himself, Daniel C. Peterson, to further mis-lead Internet searches on Mormonism to pro-Mormon sites. Allen registered hundreds - if not into a couple thousand - websites, from everything from "http://aboutmormons.org," to "http://africanamericanmormons.org," to "http://webmormon.com," and more (see http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_fair.html#pub_503024067) Allen shows a history of this kind of behavior.
FARMS, FAIR (or whatever they want to call themselves), Allen and Daniel will continue to mislead those who are easily convinced, who cannot decipher their lengthy verbosities, and who are unfortunately tricked into "Milk before Meat". Meanwhile, myself, and hundreds of other Ex-Mormons are working very hard to make sure the truth is there in easy to read formats - now including video.
I believe the exposure as to what Allen did was beneficial, even if the lawsuit has ended unsuccessfully.
Allen Wyatt registered the sites with similar names to the UTLM. Allen Wyatt stole the UTLM website layout (HTML), changed the links to "Pro" Mormon material, and placed the copied site onto his new registered sites.
The sole purpose: Lying for the Lord. Trick persons who know nothing of Mormonism into "Milk before Meat". Mormons want you to learn about Mormonism from them, not anyone else. That way they can carefully hide all of the ghosts in the closet until it is much too late. Investigators are stealthily lead into accepting assumptions about God and his plan for man and the need for leadership / authority / priesthood on earth. Don't ask, don't tell.
If you look at the SLTRIB article, you see that perhaps UTLM didn't have a way of suing Allen Wyatt without using the cyber squatting angle. In the end, that angle didn't pan out because Wyatt (while not obviously) didn't benefit in a monetary way by doing what he did.
Oh, and alleging that Allen knew nothing of what was being done is ludicrous.
On February 8th, 2006, Allen's new ploy was the "More Good Foundation", along with Mr. Obfuscation himself, Daniel C. Peterson, to further mis-lead Internet searches on Mormonism to pro-Mormon sites. Allen registered hundreds - if not into a couple thousand - websites, from everything from "http://aboutmormons.org," to "http://africanamericanmormons.org," to "http://webmormon.com," and more (see http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_fair.html#pub_503024067) Allen shows a history of this kind of behavior.
FARMS, FAIR (or whatever they want to call themselves), Allen and Daniel will continue to mislead those who are easily convinced, who cannot decipher their lengthy verbosities, and who are unfortunately tricked into "Milk before Meat". Meanwhile, myself, and hundreds of other Ex-Mormons are working very hard to make sure the truth is there in easy to read formats - now including video.
I believe the exposure as to what Allen did was beneficial, even if the lawsuit has ended unsuccessfully.
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_Dr. Shades
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 14117
- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:07 pm
Runtu wrote:I guess I'm still surprised that Allen would have done something like that.
Why are you surprised? That's not the only time he's done such a thing!
Kevin made mention of "the Grant Palmer incident." Are you familiar with it? If not, then here's what happened: On RFM, people were discussing ways to support Grant Palmer through his upcoming disciplinary proceeding. They decided to put up a website and bantered back and forth over which domain name to buy.
Allen was monitoring RFM at the time, and quickly bought up the name they'd decided on before they got a chance to. He even registered a few variants.
So he got to silence the ex-Mormons for a time.
Pretty slimy, if you ask me.
Honestly, in all the years I've interacted with Allen, I've had nothing but positive experiences. I'm really not sure how to reconcile the "immature stunt" with my experience with the man.
Don't reconcile them. They are what they are.
Maybe some of you have had different experiences with him, but I genuinely like him.
Good for you, but he's not above using underhanded tactics to silence others.
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"
--Louis Midgley
--Louis Midgley
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_Dr. Shades
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 14117
- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:07 pm
Oh yeah, one thing I forgot:
A couple of years before this latest fiasco, some anti-Mormon registered the domain name "http://www.fair-lds.com." Remember, FAIR's domain at the time was "http://www.fair-lds.org."
The anti-Mormon put up lots of anti-Mormon information at that domain. Predictably, the apologists at FAIR were screaming bloody murder, shouting from the rooftops about how unscrupulous, unprincipled, and vicious their "enemies" are.
Has anyone brought that up over at MA&D yet? It's almost worth registering another sock-puppet just to point out the hypocrisy.
A couple of years before this latest fiasco, some anti-Mormon registered the domain name "http://www.fair-lds.com." Remember, FAIR's domain at the time was "http://www.fair-lds.org."
The anti-Mormon put up lots of anti-Mormon information at that domain. Predictably, the apologists at FAIR were screaming bloody murder, shouting from the rooftops about how unscrupulous, unprincipled, and vicious their "enemies" are.
Has anyone brought that up over at MA&D yet? It's almost worth registering another sock-puppet just to point out the hypocrisy.
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"
--Louis Midgley
--Louis Midgley
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_Runtu
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 16721
- Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:06 am
Dr. Shades wrote:Runtu wrote:I guess I'm still surprised that Allen would have done something like that.
Why are you surprised? That's not the only time he's done such a thing!
Kevin made mention of "the Grant Palmer incident." Are you familiar with it? If not, then here's what happened: On RFM, people were discussing ways to support Grant Palmer through his upcoming disciplinary proceeding. They decided to put up a website and bantered back and forth over which domain name to buy.
Allen was monitoring RFM at the time, and quickly bought up the name they'd decided on before they got a chance to. He even registered a few variants.
So he got to silence the ex-Mormons for a time.
Pretty slimy, if you ask me.Honestly, in all the years I've interacted with Allen, I've had nothing but positive experiences. I'm really not sure how to reconcile the "immature stunt" with my experience with the man.
Don't reconcile them. They are what they are.Maybe some of you have had different experiences with him, but I genuinely like him.
Good for you, but he's not above using underhanded tactics to silence others.
Well, I am not surprised that you've had different experiences from mine. I haven't had extensive dealings with the man, but the limited interaction I have had has been cordial.
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_dartagnan
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 2750
- Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:27 pm
Feb 18, 2006
Kantgomo: While you're still online.... I've seen lately on the www that someone is allegedly buying up lds-related host names possibly in order to turn the internet search results to where there are more pro-lds results appearing. Whatever the reason or whomever is doing so. I wanted to ask Mr. Wyatt if he is aware of such and if so, I wanted to ask who is footing the bill? Thanks.
Allen Wyatt: And why, pray tell, would you want to know such information? Mere idle speculation?
Kantgomo: I have nothing to gain Mr. Wyatt. Why not just answer the question?
Allen Wyatt: Why not, indeed. You have given me no good reason why I should, so I doubt if I will. (Just because someone asks doesn't mean that an answer must be forthcoming.)
Dunamis: If you have a question for one poster take it to email.
Kantgomo: While you're still online.... I've seen lately on the www that someone is allegedly buying up lds-related host names possibly in order to turn the internet search results to where there are more pro-lds results appearing. Whatever the reason or whomever is doing so. I wanted to ask Mr. Wyatt if he is aware of such and if so, I wanted to ask who is footing the bill? Thanks.
Allen Wyatt: And why, pray tell, would you want to know such information? Mere idle speculation?
Kantgomo: I have nothing to gain Mr. Wyatt. Why not just answer the question?
Allen Wyatt: Why not, indeed. You have given me no good reason why I should, so I doubt if I will. (Just because someone asks doesn't mean that an answer must be forthcoming.)
Dunamis: If you have a question for one poster take it to email.
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_Runtu
- _Emeritus
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Don't look now, but the MDB obsession board is now taking notice of this thread and mocking our "legal analysis." Funny, I don't recall making any legal analyses on this thread. I'm content that the judge probably did the right thing. I stand by my earlier assessment that what Allen did was rather juvenile. But then Mrs. Tanner has done the same thing.
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_Sethbag
- _Emeritus
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- Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:52 am
moksha wrote:Is there any chance this ruling will be appealed to those gentiles in Denver?
Probably not, because the judge's decision was pretty sound, and an appeal would be throwing good money after bad. Not that nobody has ever done that before, but at some point you gotta give people the benefit of the doubt. ;-)
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen