The good that the church does

[_moksha]

Giving others their time and resources in a loving manner is what makes good neighbors and Christians. All that theology stuff is merely fluff that can interfere with the true intent of Jesus.

Mormons are very high on this scale of giving and helping.

[_Mister Scratch]

I think that the good the Church does comes largely on an individual basis. Some people are made very happy by the Church. Others are able to overcome long-term problems in their lives, such as alcoholism, or drug addiction. (Of course, this is salted a bit by the fact that these people will be forever stigmatized within the context of Mormonism). Some people behave more nicely towards others as a result of the Church.

Still....the more I think about it, and bearing Kevin's anecdotes in mind, I wonder if one can even name a single truly charitable Mormon act? Is this even possible? After all, the Church always teachings the blessings accompany acts of charity. This reminds me of the tithing thread, and the unavoidable fact that the paying of tithing is always tainted by the promise of blessings, thus rendering the tithepayer at least a tiny bit selfish.

[_cacheman]

Still....the more I think about it, and bearing Kevin's anecdotes in mind, I wonder if one can even name a single truly charitable Mormon act? Is this even possible? After all, the Church always teachings the blessings accompany acts of charity. This reminds me of the tithing thread, and the unavoidable fact that the paying of tithing is always tainted by the promise of blessings, thus rendering the tithepayer at least a tiny bit selfish.

I hate it when people assume motivations based on association. If I help out a neighbor in part due to knowing that it will make me feel good to lighten their burden, does it make it any less charitable? I don't know. Selfishness is such a hard thing to pin down and quantify. Maybe... If so, then I would say that most if not all of my charitable or kind acts are at least in part attributed to selfishness. It's really only up to me to evaluate my motivations.

What really matters is the actions. People are being helped. Money is being spent. People are trying to make the world a better place. I may not agree with the specifics of each act of charity, or the overall message of the organization behind the service, but I do feel that it is bad form to criticize charity based on assumed motivations.

cacheman

[_Mister Scratch]

What really matters is the actions. People are being helped. Money is being spent. People are trying to make the world a better place. I may not agree with the specifics of each act of charity, or the overall message of the organization behind the service, but I do feel that it is bad form to criticize charity based on assumed motivations.

cacheman

I like what you're saying, cacheman, but can you point to specific instances of "the actions"? You say that "people are being helped," and that "money is being spend," but is it really? I have often heard TBMs discuss how great the Church's welfare system is, along with its various charitable divisions, but have yet to be shown any real evidence. Let's face it: mowing a lawn in the hopes of being able to pass out a Book of Mormon is a pretty lame form of "charity."

I am not "assuming" anything. I know this are the motivations based on teachings from within the Church.

Let me ask this in a more frank and direct way: Can anyone name a single, untainted act of charity that has ever been done by the Church?

[_cacheman]

Can anyone name a single, untainted act of charity that has ever been done by the Church?

My father is a transient bishop and has paid out of church funds for meals, hotel rooms, bus tickets, etc., to people in crisis situations irrespective of their religious affiliation. I don't believe there is generally a proselityzing component to this service, and there is no long-term advantage to the local church authorities in helping these people.

cacheman

[_dartagnan]

Charity is defined as generous actions or donations to aid the poor, ill, or helpless. There is no question that charity is something the Church regularly engages in. I suppose the only thing we’re discussing is a difference between selfless charity and, for lack of a better word, selfish charity. I wouldn’t consider general LDS charity selfless, but selfish doesn’t sound right either.

In any event, I suppose what is trying to be said is there is a difference between this type of charity and the charity we have come to understand from the likes of Ghandi and Mother Teresa, who were utterly selfless in their charity. We’re taught that to boast of charity kinda defeats the purpose insofar as the reception of blessings is concerned. It is possible to help the poor for other than selfless reasons, and for the needy, none of this matters. But as far as using the instance to advertise “goodness” about the Church, I think it matters.

On my mission I was told that if an investigator had issues with tithing that we’re supposed to tell him that he pretty much gets it all back when he files for his tax return. Of course this only depends on your tax bracket, but it kinda defeated the purpose of tithing if you ask me. Isn’t it about personal sacrifice and not a temporary absence of something?

[_Who Knows]

I would like to know what specifically you see as some good the church does for you or for the world at large.

The church keeps everyone indoors on Sundays, leaving Utah County all to myself. It's like a ghost town out there. Very pleasant.

[_Jason Bourne]

1: Charitable works both locally and nationally, by the Church and members.
2: Emphasis on self reliance and work
3: Brings people to Christ. Note I do not want to debate theological isssues on this one.
4: Local assistance through fast offering
5: Gives people a vehicle to serve other. I believe a ward puts us in a situation where we serve and help others in a way most of us never would, especially if the ward has a mixed socio-economic status.
6: Encourages us to be good fathers and mothers.
7: Following WoW can bring helath benefits


How is that for starters?

[_Jason Bourne]

Still....the more I think about it, and bearing Kevin's anecdotes in mind, I wonder if one can even name a single truly charitable Mormon act? Is this even possible? After all, the Church always teachings the blessings accompany acts of charity. This reminds me of the tithing thread, and the unavoidable fact that the paying of tithing is always tainted by the promise of blessings, thus rendering the tithepayer at least a tiny bit selfish.

While I agree that the Church at times uses it charitable activities for porfile and publicity I think you overstate it. Yet I do recall a few years ago our stake wanted every ward to do two form of community service projects. The PR person that was leading this out told all us leaders that we were doing this for MISSIONARY WORK! THat really bugged me.

On the other hand I have witnessed countless acts of slefless charityh that go reltively unoticed by most people. Some may do such thing without the Church but many would not. Helping an old woman get gorciereis, or move, or to the doctor, a bishop paying for a person to get there horrible teeth fixed or assisting someone with other dire financial needs, time spent woith a wayward youth and on and on.

[_Runtu]

While I agree that the Church at times uses it charitable activities for porfile and publicity I think you overstate it. Yet I do recall a few years ago our stake wanted every ward to do two form of community service projects. The PR person that was leading this out told all us leaders that we were doing this for MISSIONARY WORK! THat really bugged me.

On the other hand I have witnessed countless acts of slefless charityh that go reltively unoticed by most people. Some may do such thing without the Church but many would not. Helping an old woman get gorciereis, or move, or to the doctor, a bishop paying for a person to get there horrible teeth fixed or assisting someone with other dire financial needs, time spent woith a wayward youth and on and on.

I think it's a mixed bag. Most of the formal service projects seem to have missionary efforts as the purpose, but I too have seen a lot of selfless love and service given throughout the church. There is a lot of good in Mormonism that I will always acknowledge and be grateful for. Doesn't make the church true, mind you. ;-)