I'm assuming you don't have a problem with the "principle" of blood atonement? You would support a theocracy that, for example, implemented the death penalty for adultery and theft?
I don't know about theft, but adultery under a theocrasy I would say yes.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
BERLIN, Sep 29 (IPS) - Amnesty International has issued an urgent appeal calling on its members to write letters to the Republic of Iran asking them not to stone seven women.
Nearly all of the women have been sentenced to die by stoning for adultery. Officially Iran had placed a moratorium on the cruel and painful practise in 2002, but Amnesty claims sentencing continues. The group has received credible reports that two people were stoned to death in May.
The United Nations Human Rights Committee has ruled that treating adultery and fornication as criminal offences does not comply with international human rights standards.
"The sentence of execution by stoning for adultery breaches Iran's commitment under article 6(2) of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights that death sentences will be imposed ‘only for the most serious crimes'," Amnesty wrote in its appeal.
Under Shari'a law, a prisoner is buried up to her breast, her hands restrained. Rules also specify the size of the stones which can be thrown so that death is painful and not imminent. Both men and women can be sentenced to die by stoning. In practise, however, an overwhelming number of women receive that penalty.
Now listen to another viewpoint:
1But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 Early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and began to teach them. 3The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court,4they said to Him, "Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. 5"Now in the Law, Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?" 6They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. 7But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court." John 8:1-9
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.
Blood Atonement is a goofy idea that Brigham Young proffered. It is an embarrassment to the LDS Church and has long since been dropped. I suspect it is only trotted out to provide further embarrassment to the LDS Church
I'm assuming you don't have a problem with the "principle" of blood atonement? You would support a theocracy that, for example, implemented the death penalty for adultery and theft?
I don't know about theft, but adultery under a theocrasy I would say yes.
Ray, are you reading? Is this an example of the Mormon moral superiority over exmormons you were referring to? So you think it's good, that followers are obedient and relinguish decision making to a religious authority be it scripture or church? I'd rather have someone who drinks wine responsibly any day than someone who is clueless about making good ethical decisions.
Blood Atonement is a goofy idea that Brigham Young proffered. It is an embarrassment to the LDS Church and has long since been dropped. I suspect it is only trotted out to provide further embarrassment to the LDS Church
Easy for a liberal like you to say. Gaz takes it seriously, and as long as members are taught to view the words of the prophets as directly inspired from God, you will continue to have plenty of Gaz's within LDS ranks.
This is why it is important for churches to officially reject such past teachings.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.
- Setting aside sins against the Holy Ghost for a moment as a special category unto themselves, it is LDS doctrine that sexual transgression is second only to murder in the Lord's list of life's most serious sins. By assigning such rank to illicit indulgence in a physical appetite so conspicuously evident in all of us, what is God trying to tell us about its place in His plan for all men and women in mortality? I submit to you He is doing precisely that--commenting about the very plan of life itself. Clearly God's greatest concerns regarding mortality are how one gets into this world and how one gets out of it. These two most important issues in our very personal and carefully supervised progress are the two issues that He as our Creator and Father and Guide wishes most to reserve to himself. These are the two matters that He has repeatedly told us He wants us never to take illegally, illicitly, unfaithfully, without sanction.
As for the taking of life, we are generally quite responsible. Most people, it seems to me, readily sense the sanctity of life and as a rule do not run up to friends, put a loaded revolver to their heads, and cavalierly pull the trigger. Furthermore, when there is a click of the hammer rather than an explosion of lead, and a possible tragedy seems to have been averted, no one in such a circumstance would be so stupid as to sigh, "Oh, good. I didn't go all the way." No, "all the way" or not, the insanity of such action with fatal powder and steel is obvious on the face of it. Such a person running about the BYU campus with an arsenal of loaded handguns or military weaponry aimed at fellow students would be apprehended, prosecuted, and institutionalized if in fact such a lunatic would not himself have been killed in all the pandemonium. After such a fictitious moment of horror on this campus (and I remember my college years when the sniper wasn't fictitious, killing twelve of his fellow students at the University of Texas), students would undoubtedly sit in dorms or classrooms with terror on their minds for many months to come, wondering how such a thing could possibly happen-especially here at BYU.
No, fortunately, in the case of how life is taken, I think we seem to be quite responsible. The seriousness of that does not often have to be spelled out, and not many sermons need to be devoted to it.
But in the significance and sanctity of giving life, some of us are not so responsible, and in the larger world swirling around us we find near-criminal irresponsibility. What would in the case of taking life bring absolute horror and demand grim justice, in the case of giving life brings dirty jokes and four-letter lyrics and crass carnality on the silver screen, home-owned or downtown.
IS such moral turpitude so wrong? That question has always been asked, usually by the guilty. "Such is the way of an adulterous woman; she eateth, and wipeth her mouth, and saith, I have done no wickedness" (Proverbs 30:20). No murder here. Well, maybe not. But sexual transgression? "He that doeth it destroyeth his own soul." That sounds near fatal to me.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
Tell me what your reaction is to the news article I linked about the women in Iran being stoned for adultery. Tell me what your reaction is to Jesus stopping just such a stoning.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.
beastie wrote:Tell me what your reaction is to the news article I linked about the women in Iran being stoned for adultery.
My reaction is that it's a travesty that they don't stone the man as well. If you're going to stone people for adultery, at least do it right.
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You rquestion to me was would I agree to it under a theocracy, and under that circumstance I would agree.
If these women live in a society where that is the law, and they have broken the law, they were comiting adultery with a knowledge of what the results would be.
Christs forgiveness of the woman came with the warning to go her way and sin no more. I wonder if she was to return under the same conditions if he would put forth the effort to stop the crowd, seeing as how she commited the act with full knowledge.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
