Response to Ray A.

[_Analytics]

My only point is that it is more than marginally hypocritical for them to decry at anti-Mormon antics while engaging in exactly the same behavior.

And what a great point it is!

It looks like you quoted Ray A on MA&D at one point:

How anyone can defend that board now is beyond me. And the latest episode with David proves it. All egged on by the good Doktor, who rides triumphantly on his on his favourite anti-Mormon horses, or should that be - asses?

Now, I can only assume that he's talking about this board, and that "the good Doktor" is me?

If so, can you tell us the name of the thread that's in or, barring that, the thread's URL?

Thanks!

The thread was Mormon Discussions Board, which was closed yesterday at 5:06.

I said this:

I have complete empathy for anybody who doesn’t want to post at MDB; it is a rough place if your views are unpopular with certain people there. However, there are smart, intelligent, and thoughtful people too. There is fair opportunity to have intelligent conversation by choosing the threads you participate in. And in any case, the rules of the turf are clear and fairly applied—you are free to defend yourself.

I like MDB because I judge it by its best—by the best posters on the best threads. For the same reason, I think MAD is a fantastic board. There are many people here who are very intelligent, and when I’m debating these issues, I’d like to test my ideas against the best and the brightest. I can do that here better than anywhere else.

However, there is an incredible amount of hypocrisy here among some of the people some of the time. For example, the rules talk about how you’re supposed to be respectful and debate the evidence. But it’s perfectly all right here to be very insulting to “anti-Mormons”. There is nothing wrong with that, per se; I have no problem with calling a spade a spade. But whenever I try to introduce what people have actually said, in context, so we can fairly discuss if these harsh judgments are warranted, then the thread is immediately shut down.

Apparently, it is perfectly fine to say that certain people literally want to destroy Mormons who defend their religion. But remember, it is against the rules for the evidence of these allegations to be considered here.

Ray replied,

I never insulted an "anti-Mormon" who didn't first insult me. I tried to defend the character of Dan Peterson, and the long knives came out. Because I defended his character against very slanderous allegations, I was described as "worshiping at the altar of DCP". Then "Mr. Scratch" dug up some old animosities between Dan and myself (four years old to be exact) and blew it out of all proportion, yet now that Kevin Graham is in the same predicament (but having gone from defender to critic) the long knives are sheathed. Do you detect some bias there?

On MDB, it is perfectly alright to be insulting to Mormons. You can slander them to your heart's content. In fact, on any exmo board you can call Mormons anything you want. Soup-slurpers, immoral, whatever. The insults are not short here, either, though somewhat tamed by moderation, and they are often subtle insults. Can you blame Mormons for letting loose sometimes? Is this really "hypocrisy"?

How anyone can defend that board now is beyond me. And the latest episode with David proves it. All egged on by the good Doktor, who rides triumphantly on his on his favourite anti-Mormon horses, or should that be - asses?

[_Blixa]

I like MDB because I judge it by its best—by the best posters on the best threads.

I think this is a good standard to use, and while I've never formulated it as articulately as you just did, I think I've been using the same standard myself to gauge all the boards I've participated in since I first got online in the early 90's. Every online community is a mixed bag; every bbs I've known has had its share of flaming and spurts of irrational rhetoric and name-calling. But the ones I've continued to contribute to, some for 10 + years, also have enough valuable and positive experience to make such problems ultimately minor.

Ray replied, I never insulted an "anti-Mormon" who didn't first insult me.

One of my first experiences on this board was being insulted by Ray A; I hadn't been around long enough to pick up any ammunition to insult anyone with yet had I even been interested. For a while he followed me around the board and had something inflamatory to post even when I was trying to create different discussions than the threads he was currently posting on.

To be fair, I also ran afoul of Coggins pretty soon too, but to his credit he didn't "follow me" and I assume mostly avoided my posts like I mostly avoid his. Furthermore, I've had civil and interesting discussions with Coggins in the Off Topic forum and I also contributed, I hope helpfully and supportively, to (was it one or two threads?) his discussions about "credentialism" and returning to school.

From what I know of them via their posts on this board (and that must be an infitesimally tiny part of who they are, as it is for all of us) Wade and Gaz hold positions polar opposite of my own and while I may be alternately disappointed or even apalled at some of their arguments, neither has been insulting toward me and I hope I haven't been egregious in my remarks to them. And while I disagree with a lot of what they have to say, I have learned from our exchanges and that for me is the point of all of this.

Why am I here? Lately, I've found myself interested in Mormon/utah/western history. Some of this is middle-age nostalgia and the result of living half my life in a self-imposed exile from a place I truly love (uh, I mean "Utah" as a physical landscape and platonic ideal in my own mind and heart, not "Utah" as it currently exists socio-economically. That this is an intolerable contradiction is a torment probably uniquely my own). And some of it is the confluence of long-standing intellectual and scholarly pursuits. I've found online discussion to be a useful and productive supplement to my research and I would even say a legitimate form of research itself. So in the last few years I've been reading and sometimes participating in a variety of mormon-themed bbs and blogs. This place struck me as offering some "Mormon voices" I hadn't encountered elsewhere.

I don't see this as a form of "anti-mormonism," but I suspect Ray A did and I can only assume from his statement that my mere presence was enough to constitute a "first insult."

[_Dr. Shades]

On MDB, it is perfectly alright to be insulting to Mormons. You can slander them to your heart's content.

One thing he neglects to mention is that on MDB it's also perfectly alright to be insulting to anti-Mormons as well.

We're nothing if not consistent.

[_Mr. Coffee]

Now, I can only assume that he's talking about this board, and that "the good Doktor" is me?

In that case, you might want to consider changing your AV to "Dr. Strangelove".

[_Gazelam]

From what I know of them via their posts on this board (and that must be an infitesimally tiny part of who they are, as it is for all of us) Wade and Gaz hold positions polar opposite of my own and while I may be alternately disappointed or even apalled at some of their arguments, neither has been insulting toward me and I hope I haven't been egregious in my remarks to them. And while I disagree with a lot of what they have to say, I have learned from our exchanges and that for me is the point of all of this.

Thank you for your comments. Your far too congenial to ever insult. : )