Battle Royale (with cheese)

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
_Jason Bourne
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Post by _Jason Bourne »

The Nehor wrote:You do realize that the guy is taking time out of his day to visit you because he's concerned about you.

Whether you agree with him or not treating this as a WWF match complete with pre-fight taunting is kinda childish.


If you have not realized it yet Merc is childish.
_harmony
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Post by _harmony »

GIMR wrote:When someone leaves another Christian church for a church that better suits their needs, they're sent away with blessings! Most mainstream Christian churches these days even encourages seekers to look at different ministries and see which ones speak to them the most. You're given full disclosure of what that church's beliefs and mission are, none of this "milk before meat" stuff. And if you at any time want to leave, no one is coming to your house or setting up any interviews.


Um. No. At least, not when a person leaves a Protestant church or Catholic church to join the Mormon church. Then the reaction is quite different.

I don't think it's right for the SP to harass him for leaving, but to act like it's okay with the rest of world when someone joins the LDS church is just not correct.
_Jason Bourne
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Post by _Jason Bourne »

Nehor, are you sure he's that concerned?


Yes most are .

C'mon...this is one of the problems I have with Mormonsim. When someone leaves another Christian church for a church that better suits their needs, they're sent away with blessings! Most mainstream Christian churches these days even encourages seekers to look at different ministries and see which ones speak to them the most. You're given full disclosure of what that church's beliefs and mission are, none of this "milk before meat" stuff. And if you at any time want to leave, no one is coming to your house or setting up any interviews
.

Merc did not leave for another Church. And no LDS leader is any more concerned about a member leaving for another church then the minister would be if one of his member joined the LDS church.

I think the bishop is indoctrinated, not truly concerned. He doesn't realize what he's doing. If he stepped outside of Mormonism into common sense for a minute and thought about what he was doing (invading someone's privacy, and questioning a very personal spiritual decision that he has no business questioning), he might pause.


This is not a privacy issue. Merc's family is LDS and I am not sure that he is not yet. The SP, not bishop, is doing what he believes is right. If Merch does not want to talk all he has to do is decline. But know he takes some glee in thinking he can do run arounds on LDS issues with his SP and take glee in it.


The first time I left I let my bishop talk me out of it. It took me three years to get my name taken off church records. My mom had to threaten legal action to get ONLY my LDS friends to come to the door instead of church reps. Concern? I think not. Sounds more like self-righteousness to me, a belief that they have a right to be in my home. Only my LDS friends that I invite into my home have a right to be there.


I am am not sure when you left but it is not that difficult now. All one needs to do is write a letter.

Merc, let him have it. So he's a bishop, who cares? Is he to get special treatment, are you to stifle your feelings because of that? Don't skewer him, but don't hide either. I did, and I spent probably far more years in pain than I should have.


The man is taking his personal time to try to do what he believes is help. If Merc is so free of the Church as he touts then he should just tell the SP not to come over.
_Sam Harris
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Post by _Sam Harris »

I agree that when someone leaves a mainstream church for the LDS church they should be given the same blessings. The disconnect no doubt comes from lack of understanding about what LDS believe. But when I converted, I didn't have that experience. Perhaps it's because I wasn't affiliated with any church at all. Still, when I left, I could not get the missionaries to stop calling and coming by, even when I begged. When my mom answered the door angrily (and that embarassed me, because that wasn't what I wanted to happen at all), they acted the victim, here they were trying to do God's work, and I wasn't cooperating.
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi
_Sam Harris
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Post by _Sam Harris »

Jason Bourne wrote:
Nehor, are you sure he's that concerned?


Yes most are .

C'mon...this is one of the problems I have with Mormonsim. When someone leaves another Christian church for a church that better suits their needs, they're sent away with blessings! Most mainstream Christian churches these days even encourages seekers to look at different ministries and see which ones speak to them the most. You're given full disclosure of what that church's beliefs and mission are, none of this "milk before meat" stuff. And if you at any time want to leave, no one is coming to your house or setting up any interviews
.

Merc did not leave for another Church. And no LDS leader is any more concerned about a member leaving for another church then the minister would be if one of his member joined the LDS church.

I think the bishop is indoctrinated, not truly concerned. He doesn't realize what he's doing. If he stepped outside of Mormonism into common sense for a minute and thought about what he was doing (invading someone's privacy, and questioning a very personal spiritual decision that he has no business questioning), he might pause.


This is not a privacy issue. Merc's family is LDS and I am not sure that he is not yet. The SP, not bishop, is doing what he believes is right. If Merch does not want to talk all he has to do is decline. But know he takes some glee in thinking he can do run arounds on LDS issues with his SP and take glee in it.


The first time I left I let my bishop talk me out of it. It took me three years to get my name taken off church records. My mom had to threaten legal action to get ONLY my LDS friends to come to the door instead of church reps. Concern? I think not. Sounds more like self-righteousness to me, a belief that they have a right to be in my home. Only my LDS friends that I invite into my home have a right to be there.


I am am not sure when you left but it is not that difficult now. All one needs to do is write a letter.

Merc, let him have it. So he's a bishop, who cares? Is he to get special treatment, are you to stifle your feelings because of that? Don't skewer him, but don't hide either. I did, and I spent probably far more years in pain than I should have.


The man is taking his personal time to try to do what he believes is help. If Merc is so free of the Church as he touts then he should just tell the SP not to come over.



Jason, I'm sorry but I do not see it as that innocent. I took me three years to leave, and I got my final release letter about six months ago. My request was not respected until I said I'd get the law involved, and then all of a sudden it happened quickly. All I wanted was to leave quietly the first time, I wrote a letter, I submitted to the interview...allowed myself to be talked out of having my name taken off church records...which allowed the missionaries to keep coming by. They persisted until I gave in, and I gave in under pressure. I continued to question and be unhappy, and tried to leave again. I wrote a letter....nothing happened. I gave up, tried again, convinced that since no one was listening, that this had to be the right church. Finally, I wrote to SLC, and got the process started in the right way, or I might have gotten a bishop willing to listen. Either way, that letter will be protected from natural disaster for the rest of my life.

In the mainstream Christian arena, a non-believing spouse is not subject to visits from clergy. The focus is on the believing spouse, the children if they are involved in church, and what can be done to make the situation comfortable for all involve. I feel this is a more sensitive and sensible alternative. I still feel that my bishop interviews when exiting the church (three times) were very painful and embarassing moments that didn't really need to happen. I felt trapped. That's not fair. Why would God want to trap someone?

My health doesn't allow me to see my church home but once every three or four months. My pastor isn't banging my door down, his reps aren't blowing up my phone. Perhaps it's because they trust me and know that I know I'm saved. Perhaps they know they can't play middle man between me and God (no prophet, no hierarchy). When I can come, they're just happy to see me. The journey is mine and God's to control....well mainly God's at this point. If I stick my fingers in this they'll come out funky. Still, I like knowing that if I move on, no one is going to be trailing me.

I almost joined the church next door to my house. I got sick three days after saying I would. Do you know those people, though I'm sure they care just as much as you say this bishop does, never once harassed me, never called to say "when you coming to class, when you coming to church"? There's some trust there.

I'm sorry, but I don't see concern when someone is invading your home or tying up your phone line when you say you don't want to be a member of their church anymore. I see control. And perhaps it's because I've been through the pain of it that I see it this way. My family was negatively affected by the presence of people I did not really know insisting that they needed to be in my home reading to me from a book I had already read and decided wasn't for me. My mother was furious, my stepfather was furious, and we already had problems.

Bishop needs to back off Merc. Bishop can visit Merc's wife if he likes, and only if Merc says so. Here's an example of a good LDS leader for you: an old Stake Pres of mine. I was living with my father, and he knew my Dad wasn't doing all he could as head of the household. SP walked up to dad one sunday and looked him in the eye solemnly and reminded him of his duty as head of his home. Dad felt guilty, but ultimately did nothing. SP fed us those last two months dad lived...I wouldn't have expected that to go on, but he didn't pry. He knew where to stop.
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi
_Coggins7
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Post by _Coggins7 »

Make sure you hide all your drug paraphernalia and take down the Curt Cobain poster just to make youself appear to be an adult.

That might break the ice a little bit at the outset.
The face of sin today often wears the mask of tolerance.


- Thomas S. Monson
_Mercury
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Post by _Mercury »

The Nehor wrote:You do realize that the guy is taking time out of his day to visit you because he's concerned about you.

Whether you agree with him or not treating this as a WWF match complete with pre-fight taunting is kinda childish.


What I say here and how I conduct myself outside the tubes are two different things. I was cordial and up front, he was dodgy and misguided.

I was never rude to him, I never called him names nor made any of my patent homosexual comments.
And crawling on the planet's face
Some insects called the human race
Lost in time
And lost in space...and meaning
_harmony
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Post by _harmony »

GIMR wrote:Bishop can visit Merc's wife if he likes, and only if Merc says so.


Uh.... no. Only if Mercury says so? Since when does a wife have to ask her husband for permission to be visited by her own clergy?
_moksha
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Post by _moksha »

GIMR wrote:Nehor, are you sure he's that concerned?


Something must have concerned him about their previous chat at the luau to schedule this meeting. Why else who he be wanting it?
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_moksha
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Post by _moksha »

harmony wrote:
GIMR wrote:Bishop can visit Merc's wife if he likes, and only if Merc says so.


Uh.... no. Only if Mercury says so? Since when does a wife have to ask her husband for permission to be visited by her own clergy?


Good point. Let the women decided for themselves what they want to do. Of course GIMR knows this, so she must have meant something else.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
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