Mercury wrote:What would it take for Emma to have been OK with joe taking to bed the girl living in their house and the young daughters and wives of those he whipped into a millenial fervor? Apparently it took joe claiming that an angel told him it was all cool. Besides, them prophets need servicing, right?
Joe was known by many to be violently jealous. Men like this often did not spare the rod on their wives. I see joe capable of such acts as beating his wife, emotional manipulation, guilting and out and out hiding the true facts from her. Dealing out emotional abuse comes along with an insecure personality.
Emma was cool with it because she had no choice. Could she really have escaped? Was she complicit in the abuse as well? Was it rationalization and possibly outright inbred stupidity contributing to her sticking with the low men in yellow coats of the early Mormon executives?
Furthermore, if Joe was not what the church claimed him to be was Emma also not to be trusted but still strong in her own conflicted way?
You obviously have not read Mormon Enigma, and until you do you'll carry these airy fairy notions of Emma being an "abused wife". In fact, it's an insult to real abused wives to put Emma in that category. You just have no idea what you're talkng about, and you're bringing stereotyped notions of modern abused wives and projecting it unto Emma.
Mercury wrote:What would it take for Emma to have been OK with joe taking to bed the girl living in their house and the young daughters and wives of those he whipped into a millenial fervor? Apparently it took joe claiming that an angel told him it was all cool. Besides, them prophets need servicing, right?
Joe was known by many to be violently jealous. Men like this often did not spare the rod on their wives. I see joe capable of such acts as beating his wife, emotional manipulation, guilting and out and out hiding the true facts from her. Dealing out emotional abuse comes along with an insecure personality.
Emma was cool with it because she had no choice. Could she really have escaped? Was she complicit in the abuse as well? Was it rationalization and possibly outright inbred stupidity contributing to her sticking with the low men in yellow coats of the early Mormon executives?
Furthermore, if Joe was not what the church claimed him to be was Emma also not to be trusted but still strong in her own conflicted way?
You obviously have not read Mormon Enigma, and until you do you'll carry these airy fairy notions of Emma being an "abused wife". In fact, it's an insult to real abused wives to put Emma in that category. You just have no idea what you're talkng about, and you're bringing stereotyped notions of modern abused wives and projecting it unto Emma.
Read it: and become more informed.
I have read it Ray. Why don't you read it again and apply what is in it this time.
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
Mercury wrote:I have read it Ray. Why don't you read it again and apply what is in it this time.
Give me some examples of wife abuse. Let's go through it. Quote chapter and sentence, and lets analyse it, using footnotes and commentary from the authors as well. Furthermore, see if you can find anything that supports the notion that Emma was an "abused wife". Then let's compare that to real cases of wife abuse in our day. You don't even realise how far off the mark you are. But let's see how your assessments measure up. I don't want your opinion - I want facts.
The book makes no references to any physical abuse by Joseph Smith upon any of his wives - unless you can see fit to call the type of intercourse Joseph Smith alledgedly had with these concubines as violence against women. I'd call them concubines (at best) because none of their "marriages" were ever recognized by the state of Illinois (let alone the US).
I can imagine that when some of these women discovered what an evil man he was, they must have felt severely violated (raped).
Now, under this light, I could see everyone but Emma as a physically abused woman.
Last edited by Guest on Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mercury wrote:I have read it Ray. Why don't you read it again and apply what is in it this time.
Give me some examples of wife abuse. Let's go through it. Quote chapter and sentence, and lets analyse it, using footnotes and commentary from the authors as well. Furthermore, see if you can find anything that supports the notion that Emma was an "abused wife". Then let's compare that to real cases of wife abuse in our day. You don't even realise how far off the mark you are. But let's see how your assessments measure up. I don't want your opinion - I want facts.
The lying, the manipulation, the grotesque cheating...we could go on but quite frankly it does not matter. You will not recognise this as abuse but merely activities that the prophet got to enjoy.
Your outlook is one of Emma just not understanding that joe was SUPPOSED to screw his adopted daughter, the neighbors, his fiends wives, a 14 year old girl, etc.
You will justify josephs actions no matter what screaming all the way.
Then again maybe your just used to someone being an inch from death in order to call it "abuse". It would not surprise me.
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
The book makes no references to any physical abuse by Joseph Smith upon any of his wives - unless you can see fit to call the type of intercourse Joseph Smith alledgedly had with these concubines as violence against women. I'd call them concubines (at best) because none of their "marriages" were ever recognized by the state of Illinois (let alone the US).
I can imagine that when some of these women discovered what an evil man he was, they must have felt severely violated (raped).
Now, under this light, I could see everyone but Emma as a physically abused woman.
Telling your wife that god will destroy her if she didn't let Joe diddle little girls is not abuse? Its emotional manipulation and abuse. If you see otherwise then I suspect you have never experienced what this is like.
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
why me wrote: Now that I placated the countermos, let me just say that old joe was a good guy who found himself in difficult circumstances but in the end, he was widely respected among the LDS and all if not 99% were sad to see him murdered. Old Joe, had both the men and women crying when he was murdered. And he was sadly missed by his plural wives as well.
And emma remained faithful to her husband's memory even after she remarried and her second husband never had a bad word to say about her emma's first husband. Go figure!
Do you manipulate your husband/wife too? Tell ya what. I'm going to tell my wife that god said he commanded, with flaming sword and all that were supposed to have a threesome and if she disagrees (I don't see why not...GOD told me to) then she will be destroyed.
Yah, that's not abuse. Sure.
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
Mercury wrote: Telling your wife that god will destroy her if she didn't let Joe diddle little girls is not abuse? Its emotional manipulation and abuse. If you see otherwise then I suspect you have never experienced what this is like.
You're right, forgot about that part. Yeah, she should have removed an organ for that one.
Ray, I can't figure you out. You remind me of a fully dressed mascot that shows up at a game where your team isn't playing.
Mercury wrote:This statement of correct revelation, if it were true, is a direct and blatant statement that God cares that his prophet gets to sally up to the poon buffet.
Those who believe that it was valid should be ashamed of themselves. The only reason ou believe it to be true is that you can't wait for your celestial gangbang.
Projecting again? You mean that's the only reason YOU would believe it is true.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Mercury wrote: Telling your wife that god will destroy her if she didn't let Joe diddle little girls is not abuse? Its emotional manipulation and abuse. If you see otherwise then I suspect you have never experienced what this is like.
You're right, forgot about that part. Yeah, she should have removed an organ for that one.
Ray, I can't figure you out. You remind me of a fully dressed mascot that shows up at a game where your team isn't playing.
OMG!! That paints the perfect picture of Ray. Well said!