Ray A wrote:Speculations on the nature of consciousness has not resolved much, and I doubt "empirical science" is likely to prove life after death, at least not for a while.
The conviction of life continuing after death largely comes from people who have had NDEs. For example:
“If the whole world was to rise up and say that there was no life after one left the physical organism, it would not make one particle of difference in my mind, as I am absolutely certain that I have been as free from my physical body as I ever will be, and that my life apart from it was far more wonderful than any life I have ever experienced in it."
So said a prominent New York physician and editor of his out-of-body experience more than 100 years ago.
“Previous to having passed through these things, I believed in continuity, but I had no abiding certainty concerning it. At the present time there is never a doubt as to its verity that troubles my mind. I have the absolute assurance that when the something we call death comes, it will only mean a new and larger and more complete life. I do not expect to convince any one of the truth as I see it merely by making those statements, because I have the feeling that one must realize these things
I really don't know how anyone can be certain death is final. They can believe it, but they can't know it. I know of no NDEer who has ever come back and said death is final. ALL have said the contrary. And millions of people have experienced this.
You're right Ray. I don't know it is a certainty. I believe it is though. I believe their accounts (I don't believe they're fabrications) and recognize how they interpret them. Just as Christians the world over may tell me of their accounts with the Lord it is not my own to know.
Ray, to add to my final thought. I do however listen intently to other's experiences and beliefs. I don't discount them merely because they are not mine. It's just sometimes I can't embrace them.
barrelomonkeys wrote:I do however listen intently to other's experiences and beliefs. I don't discount them merely because they are not mine. It's just sometimes I can't embrace them.
And you probably won't until it happens to you. This is not something you can "empirically" "work out". It has to be realised. I could tell you about my ex-wife talking to spirit beings "on the other side" before she died, and she said they were "waiting for her". Of course we can dismiss all this if we think it's fantasy, or "morphine". Each to his/her own belief.
barrelomonkeys wrote:I do however listen intently to other's experiences and beliefs. I don't discount them merely because they are not mine. It's just sometimes I can't embrace them.
And you probably won't until it happens to you. This is not something you can "empirically" "work out". It has to be realised. I could tell you about my ex-wife talking to spirit beings "on the other side" before she died, and she said they were "waiting for her". Of course we can dismiss all this if we think it's fantasy, or "morphine". Each to his/her own belief.
I don't actually try to work out other's experiences. I don't necessarily believe things are fantastical just because I haven't experienced them. You won't hear me saying that those who have experiences that I haven't are somehow flawed or wrong. I can only speak for myself and my own experiences.
Is our consciousness separate from our physical body or is it some inexticable way wound up with it? I can understand that our physical bodies have evolved pretty well to survive the conditions on this planet. I can understand that our brains have evolved to keep up with that. I don't know how we can separate who we are through our physical experience on this earth. Do we imagine and ask questions of our 'continued' existence (in some form) simply as a coping mechanism for why we experience the poignance of death, or do we ask questions of our existence because of some 'intuitive' sense that a part of us is and has lived outside of this reality?
If you've already answered that (lol) then it just goes to show how much I 'don't understand gravity/time and quantum mechanics....
Revel in it, feel the wind in your hair, raise your hands over your head as you scream downward, reel in the excitement as you climb the next hill, feel the warmth of the sun as it kisses your skin and sensation of the welcomed cool breeze as you race down the next hill...
If you spend the entire time worried about the exit, based on what someone told you, you will miss the entire experience.
PP, I'm riding the roller coaster... I'm just always looking for the bigger, badder one and want to make sure I don't miss it while I'm riding on the kiddy coaster.
Polygamy Porter wrote:Life is a one time roller coaster ride.
Revel in it, feel the wind in your hair, raise your hands over your head as you scream downward, reel in the excitement as you climb the next hill, feel the warmth of the sun as it kisses your skin and sensation of the welcomed cool breeze as you race down the next hill...
If you spend the entire time worried about the exit, based on what someone told you, you will miss the entire experience.
I can put it even better than you, PP. "Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die."
Polygamy Porter wrote:Life is a one time roller coaster ride.
Revel in it, feel the wind in your hair, raise your hands over your head as you scream downward, reel in the excitement as you climb the next hill, feel the warmth of the sun as it kisses your skin and sensation of the welcomed cool breeze as you race down the next hill...
If you spend the entire time worried about the exit, based on what someone told you, you will miss the entire experience.
I can put it even better than you, PP. "Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die."
Polygamy Porter wrote:Is that how you are living now?
Not at all. I have a firm belief in life after death, and great purpose to our existence. I recognise my limitations and weaknesses. I don't try to justify them. Big difference. I believe God has a plan for all of us, but we learn as we realise.
All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players: They have their exits and their entrances; And one man in his time plays many parts...Shakespeare
You were once a TBM, and now you're an anti-Mormon. When you go the full circle you'll realise why people like me came to the realisations we did. You are shooting holes in your own shoe.