The Depressing Plan of Salvation

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_Lucretia MacEvil
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Re: The Depressing Plan of Salvation

Post by _Lucretia MacEvil »

KimberlyAnn wrote:Book of Mormon, I don't think it was anyone's intent to make her feel unloved by God because of her OCD, but the fear of not being with her family because she wasn't as compliant as other kids was hard on her. Forever Families is a weapon of the Mormon church and it works well to instill fear and guilt in it's members.

KA


Yes, it does do that, except maybe for those with a serious case of false self-esteem, or those who believe in sacrifice above all, not mentioning any names.
_Lucretia MacEvil
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Post by _Lucretia MacEvil »

KimberlyAnn wrote:
Blixa wrote:
Levi wrote:If you are totally faithless, and believe the world centers in you, and that there is nothing to give, I can understand your position.

Just a thought.

Levi


What does that mean?


I believe it means Levi thinks I'm faithless, self-centered, and selfish.


Nor do you understand the Principle of Sacrifice. Bad Kimberly Ann.
_barrelomonkeys
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Re: The Depressing Plan of Salvation

Post by _barrelomonkeys »

KimberlyAnn wrote:
barrelomonkeys wrote:KA,

That breaks my heart when I read she prayed to God to help control her OCD. I don't understand the LDS plan of happiness... but I do know that if she was made to feel that she was flawed and was not loved by God that there is no happiness there.


Book of Mormon, I don't think it was anyone's intent to make her feel unloved by God because of her OCD, but the fear of not being with her family because she wasn't as compliant as other kids was hard on her. Forever Families is a weapon of the Mormon church and it works well to instill fear and guilt in it's members.

KA


I'm sure it wasn't anyone's intent. I was just commenting that if that was her perception of it there is no happiness there. Children are fragile. We should treat them delicately.
_barrelomonkeys
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Post by _barrelomonkeys »

Hoops wrote:Well, it seems there is someone with in the walls of LDS who would make such a claim to a child with OCD.

There are ridiculous people in every church, since the building houses sinners. But the real lesson here is how ridiculous salvation by works really is.


Hoops, are you hoops22 at MAD?
_Lucretia MacEvil
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Post by _Lucretia MacEvil »

Daniel Peterson wrote:
Hoops wrote:Well, it seems there is someone with in the walls of LDS who would make such a claim to a child with OCD.

I dunno. We're getting a mother's reminiscence of something evidently told to her by her little girl about what a volunteer teacher once said to the little girl, which, even so, doesn't seem to be setting out the doctrine that you want to ascribe to the teacher. I would be very surprised if that teacher, asked whether she thought OCD could keep a child from the celestial kingdom, would have said Yes.


The Primary teacher didn't do anything wrong. Mormon God caused the problem by not answering Madeline's prayer.
_Who Knows
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Re: The Depressing Plan of Salvation

Post by _Who Knows »

Daniel Peterson wrote:Curious, how people react to things.

To me, the plan of salvation has always been the most sweeping and exhilarating aspect of Mormonism, a cosmic drama that binds the distant past and the far distant future into a vast and very satisfying narrative. It was, in fact, this aspect of LDS teaching that first caught my interest (as I've written, somewhere).


Well, the idea of it, sounds good.

Then you take a step back, and realize it's pretty ridiculous. There's maybe only a couple of things that my kids could do, that would make me kick them out of my life FOREVER (joining a specified religion ain't one of them).
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
_KimberlyAnn
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Post by _KimberlyAnn »

Daniel Peterson wrote:
Hoops wrote:Well, it seems there is someone with in the walls of LDS who would make such a claim to a child with OCD.

I dunno. We're getting a mother's reminiscence of something evidently told to her by her little girl about what a volunteer teacher once told to her, which, even so, doesn't seem to be setting out the doctrine that you want to ascribe to the teacher. I would be very surprised if that teacher, asked whether she thought OCD could keep a child from the celestial kingdom, would have said Yes.

Hoops wrote:There are ridiculous people in every church, since the building houses sinners. But the real lesson here is how ridiculous salvation by works really is.

I agree that it's a false doctrine. Who teaches it?


Actually, the teacher relayed the story to me. Madeline and I talked about it at length later.

I think the teacher had good intentions, but the reality for Madeline was that she had a hard time behaving and the implication was that God would make her better through prayer so she could make it to the CK. Maddie had already tried the prayer route, so she felt there was no hope for her.

I don't hold anything against the teacher at all.

KA
_truth dancer
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Post by _truth dancer »

HI KA...

I had a similar time as a child.

I was a child convert. My father is agnostic, my mother joined a few years after I. Everytime I heard, "families can be together forever," I heard, "I will be alone in heaven."

The Plan, for me, was, no matter how good I was, I would not be with my family. My parents were not sealed, I was not sealed to anyone. I would not be with my parents and siblings.

I never liked the plan. It always seems so elitist, so cruel, so wrong. So NOT what a child needs to here. I spent many a night as a child crying, wondering why God would create such a plan.

~dancer~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
_Levi
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Post by _Levi »

I don't see Kimberly angling for commiseration.

But, don't you see a rather common thread in this board when one does not believe in a God? To hell with everybody else.

Levi
_Lucretia MacEvil
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Post by _Lucretia MacEvil »

Levi wrote:I don't see Kimberly angling for commiseration.

But, don't you see a rather common thread in this board when one does not believe in a God? To hell with everybody else.

Levi


I'm not seeing it. What should Kimberly or Madeline have done differently?
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