"We either have a prophet or we have nothing"

[_The Nehor]

Oh, there is so much middle ground. Religionists are just hellbent to take it away from themselves. Jesus was a God in the same way you and I and all the rest of us are Gods, the only difference is in the degree to which he understood and experienced God, but that idea was 99.99% lost by the time the New Testament was written and assembled, much less when Joseph Smith restored ego teachings instead of Jesus.

He claimed he gave the Law to Moses......he said he was God. He was talking to Jews who were not pantheists. If he came across as a pantheist he wouldn't have been a danger, Israel had tons of them at the time.

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

Oh, there is so much middle ground. Religionists are just hellbent to take it away from themselves. Jesus was a God in the same way you and I and all the rest of us are Gods, the only difference is in the degree to which he understood and experienced God, but that idea was 99.99% lost by the time the New Testament was written and assembled, much less when Joseph Smith restored ego teachings instead of Jesus.

He claimed he gave the Law to Moses......he said he was God. He was talking to Jews who were not pantheists. If he came across as a pantheist he wouldn't have been a danger, Israel had tons of them at the time.

Assuming he said those things at all, assuming he wasn't speaking metaphysically, assuming it was correctly translated ...

[_The Nehor]

Oh, there is so much middle ground. Religionists are just hellbent to take it away from themselves. Jesus was a God in the same way you and I and all the rest of us are Gods, the only difference is in the degree to which he understood and experienced God, but that idea was 99.99% lost by the time the New Testament was written and assembled, much less when Joseph Smith restored ego teachings instead of Jesus.

He claimed he gave the Law to Moses......he said he was God. He was talking to Jews who were not pantheists. If he came across as a pantheist he wouldn't have been a danger, Israel had tons of them at the time.

Assuming he said those things at all, assuming he wasn't speaking metaphysically, assuming it was correctly translated ...

If you're assuming his message is utterly and completely different than what was recorded than all you can do is guess. It could be argued that he actually was the first Goth and wanted people to drink his actual blood but the message got lost.

[_huckelberry]

I read it proposed that Jesus was a god just like all of us but that he understood god better.

I think it is possible to float an hypothesis. Once it is said it only seems reasonable to ask some questions about it. What facts does it explain better than other ideas? What value can be found in the idea? does it have internal consistency?

I am asking because any positive answers for this particualar hypothesis are not readily apparent to me. That is not a claim they could not exist but an invitation to state what they are.

I am unsure if it makes sense to say one person is god like the rest of us but understands better. Why would that be? how would you know? perhaps somebody else understands better. Why not Aristotle?

Does the word god have a meaning in this theory? doesn't it mean there is god of the variety of Hank Aaron, Eric Clapton, Hughe Heffner, Mozart, Picasso, Charles Darwin, Fred Flintstone , Elizabeth Taylor, Queen Elizabeth, Florence Nightengale, St Francis ,well you get the idea. The series of names has no end.

.................................................
I thought I would add to clarify that I actually like all the variety in the vast human carnival. I figure if Jesus is not what the New Testament proclaims it really is better to just let him be one more voice in the multitude. If he had some good ideas they can stand on their own feet.

[_huckelberry]

Well, since God doesn't actually exist, he doesn't seem to speak to most people directly. It seems that this non-existent God requires a human being to stand up and proclaim that he has seen this God, and that this God deputized him as his right-hand man on earth, and that what this man (or woman) says, is really like God saying it, and we all need to obey him. Oh yeah, and we all need to start paying him money, because God needs money to build up his kingdom on earth, and this man, who claims to be God's representative on earth, is also the steward of all of God's money on earth. Yeah. Something like that.

It might sound perverse but I think God does speak to all the common folks. As a result I think the big problem with profits is that they present a real danger of teaching people not to trust their own ears. Now I might add that to my experience God doesn't babble on and on. God leaves 99 percent of my questions unanswered. I suspect there is wisdom in that. I get the impression that God only speaks of the things that matter most.

[_Gazelam]

That we have a living Prophet means that the priesthood is active. The Prophet carries all of the keys etc...

Without a living prophet the priesthood is of no effect. That means covenants arent being made, marriages no being sealed, the authority to act in Christs name is of no effect.

If a Prophet is not leading the Church, then the man he represents, namely Christ, is not leading the church, that kind of makes the church moot.

[_huckelberry]

If a prophet is not heading the church then Jesus is not actively leading it.

I wonder if it is possible to express how absurd that proposal is to somebody not saturated with Mormon teaching.

Probably not so I will comment about a couple of details.
What keys?
We know how to marry and the covenent of Baptism and the Lords supper are the ones established by God.


I think the priesthood is active where ever people change as a result of faith.

What can another priesthood do that is not already openly available? Animal sacrifice?

[_Gazelam]

Priesthood Keys

The exercise of priesthood authority in the Church is governed by those who hold priesthood keys (see D&C 65:2; 124:123). Those who hold priesthood keys have the right to preside over and direct the Church within a jurisdiction. For example, a bishop holds priesthood keys that enable him to preside in his ward. Therefore, when a child in that ward is prepared to be baptized, the person baptizing the child must receive authorization from the bishop.

Jesus Christ holds all the keys of the priesthood. He has given His Apostles the keys that are necessary for governing His Church. Only the senior Apostle, the President of the Church, may use (or authorize another person to use) these keys for governing the entire Church (see D&C 43:1–4; 81:2; 132:7).

The President of the Church delegates priesthood keys to other priesthood leaders so they can preside in their areas of responsibility. Priesthood keys are bestowed on presidents of temples, missions, stakes, and districts; bishops; branch presidents; and quorum presidents. A person who serves in one of these positions holds the keys only until he is released. Counselors do not receive keys, but they do receive authority and responsibility by calling and assignment.

[_Gazelam]

7 And verily I say unto you, that the conditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, and that too most holy, by revelation and commandment through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power (and I have appointed unto my servant Joseph to hold this hpower in the last days, and there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and the keys of this priesthood are conferred), are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead.

8 Behold, mine house is a house of order, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion.

[_huckelberry]

Gazelam. well you supplied the saturation with Mormon doctrine of keys. Of course I don't believe a word of it, especially that piece from 132 .