truth dancer wrote:The whole thing is backwards to me.
I think it appropriate for women to dress respectfully not because they are to blame for the thoughts of a guy but because I think it is a about time women and girls value themselves for something other than how sexually attractive they are to men.
After six thousand years of women being valued for their form, their worth equal to their bodies, I would hope we could move to a place where women are seen (by themselves as well as by men), as human beings, with thoughts, ideas, understanding, value, and creativity, who can contribute to the world in ways beside getting a guy turned on, or by having babies.
The idea that man was lonely so God created woman, just needs to disappear from off the face of the earth! ;-)
~dancer~
Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting having babies is not a fabulous thing!
AMEN! And this is exactly what I have tried to instill in my girls.
My son is only 3. But, I plan on teaching him that masturbation is a normal part of adolescence, and nothing to be ashamed of. It should be done privately, but other than that, it's fine. And if the bishop does actually have the guts to ask him about it, lie.
(I say if the bishop has the guts to ask because most bishops are deathly afraid of crossing me.)
I've always liked DH Lawrence's take on Victorian moral prudery:
The moral guardians who are prepared to censor all open and plain portrayal of sex must now be made to give their only justification: We prefer that the people shall masturbate. If this preference is open and declared, then the existing forms of censorship are justified. If the moral guardians prefer that the people shall masturbate, then their present behaviour is correct, and popular amusements are as they should be. If sexual intercourse is deadly sin, and masturbation is comparatively pure and harmless, then all is well. Let things continue as they now are.
But wait. In Mormonism, masturbation is not "comparatively pure and harmless" but is indeed a deadly sin. So, there is no outlet, harmless or otherwise. And yes, it does lead to sexually obsessed and frustrated people and causes men to blame women for arousing them.
I find this question and the responses quite intriquing. I will withhold my usual flippant and callous comments.
What's the question here? That women - LDS or otherwise - should or should not dress provactively and the men that are turned on by it, well, too bad?
If women want to dress scantily then they should be prepared for admiring looks. That's the way it is. IF you (collective) don't want the looks, don't dress the part. Are we supposed to walk around with blinders on? Ridiculous. And, let's be clear here, women don't even have to dress scantily. A shapely woman is going to get looks in MOST anything she wears.
I hate to break it to you but sexual attractiveness does have value. IT's important, and worthy. Is that all there is? of course not. But to cast aside this part of human interaction is silly. I'm still trying to figure out what makes a man attractive to a woman, but I know what makes a woman attractive to a man. That should be fostered, nurtured, and cared for. Because sexual attractiveness is important and does have value.
The masturbation question may the silliest question in the history of silly questions. All men do it. It is not dirty or sinful. And those who say otherwise have no scriptural evidence to support their claim. I would wager that most women do this as well. I'm way ahead on my trips to Vegas, so I know how to wager.
Hoops wrote:The masturbation question may the silliest question in the history of silly questions. All men do it. It is not dirty or sinful. And those who say otherwise have no scriptural evidence to support their claim. I would wager that most women do this as well. I'm way ahead on my trips to Vegas, so I know how to wager.
Since when do you need scriptural backing to make something a commandment???
I know a lot of women that masturbate, but I don't think it's 100% like men.
Women talk about men's reaction to the sight of women as if it is the man's fault and can be controlled. Let me state unequivocally that in 90% of the cases it CANNOT be controlled. I can control my actions in reaction to the endorphins rushing into my brain but even then I'm a fuzzy-headed idiot while doing it. Women do have that power and while I agree with the above posters that that alone should NEVER be how a woman defines herself denying the real effects it has on men is foolish.
Elder Oaks was right in that a scantily dressed girl will send thoughts rushing through my brain and unconcious reactions that to be honest I don't want to deal with unless it's going to lead to something more.....the male sex drive has a very hard time accepting the 'go so far and then stop' concept. Modest dress is a gift to guys. The opposite is also true but to a lesser degree.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Hoops wrote:The masturbation question may the silliest question in the history of silly questions. All men do it. It is not dirty or sinful. And those who say otherwise have no scriptural evidence to support their claim. I would wager that most women do this as well. I'm way ahead on my trips to Vegas, so I know how to wager.
Since when do you need scriptural backing to make something a commandment???
I know a lot of women that masturbate, but I don't think it's 100% like men.
Hoops wrote:The masturbation question may the silliest question in the history of silly questions. All men do it. It is not dirty or sinful. And those who say otherwise have no scriptural evidence to support their claim. I would wager that most women do this as well. I'm way ahead on my trips to Vegas, so I know how to wager.
Since when do you need scriptural backing to make something a commandment???
I know a lot of women that masturbate, but I don't think it's 100% like men.
Not sure I get you here, since I don't know you well. Is this sarcasm? Yeah, for it to be a commandment there should be scriptural support. Anything else should be considered "sound advice." As for this particular topic, I wouldn't even regard masturbation being sinful as "sound advice".
Book of Mormon, young Mormons are taught that their bodies are temples and should be modestly clothed, lest they tempt members of the opposite sex. Girls were indeed taught that they were largely responsible for the chastity of boys. The whole concept is skewed.
I wrote an essay several months ago titled, "My Body is Not a Temple". I'll post it. For the most part, it contains my thoughts on the matter.