Not the best way, but its the Lord's way.

[_Mercury]

Step 1: Cut up all your credit cards
Step 2: sell anything you do not need
Step 3: Stop giving away 10% of your income to a corporation that wants you to be debt free so you can keep giving them money

[_Dr. Shades]

"Not the best way, but its the Lord's way."

This should be the church's new motto.

Thanks, Some Schmo, for giving me the best and biggest laugh I've had in a long, long time!

[_wenglund]

Staying out of debt is a good start, but hardly sufficient. You really need to be putting some money into savings or you'll have even more trouble down the road.

I hear 10% is a decent number although 15% would probably be better.


Yeah, I know that most people are just scraping to make ends meet, but part of that is due to what our culture demands from us. Many of us could get by just fine with cheaper (but reliable) automobiles. Many of us could get cheaper internet and could have lived in a smaller house (except that our culture frowns on such things). We can do without cable and cell-phones. We can go on cheaper vacations. We can have the grandparents pay for themselves to visit us instead of us paying hundreds of dollars to visit them. We can tell our kids to buy their own cars if they want their own so badly. We can also make them pay for college themselves (I did).

If one understands the notion of "exponentials" (as driven home by the youtube videos you pointed us to in the Global Warming thread) the younger one starts saving the better. If a 20-year-old is able to invest a lump sum of $20,000.00 at an average annual rate of return of 7%, by the time he or she reaches 70-years-old, that $20,000 would be worth $640,000.00.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Who Knows]

If one understands the notion of "exponentials" (as driven home by the youtube videos you pointed us to in the Global Warming thread) the younger one starts saving the better. If a 20-year-old is able to invest a lump sum of $20,000.00 at an average annual rate of return of 7%, by the time he or she reaches 70-years-old, that $20,000 would be worth $640,000.00.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Don't forget about inflation! That $640k (although I came up with $590k) will be worth less than $200k in today's dollars.

[_Black Moclips]

I am sure that whatever was in the pamphlet was is line with basic common sense; however, what I found interesting was that this pamphlet was somehow elevated to "the Lord's way", as if it were some official program or revelation. The general counsel from the church is to be self sufficient and wise with your funds. Which is fine. But taking this bit of advice and supporting it with talks from GA's (which is what the pamphlet most likely is) and then stating that it is the Lord's official program and the way you should be doing it (which implies there is now some special blessing or unforeseen wisdom in such program) is going beyond the mark I believe (being commanded in all things yada yada yada).

[_asbestosman]

Don't forget about inflation! That $640k (although I came up with $590k) will be worth less than $200k in today's dollars.

How high is infaltion anyhow? Also, doesn't the market make about 9% APR if you invest long-term?

I've sometimes wondered how inflation plays into tithing. On the one hand it might be seen as me gypping the Lord if I pay tithing with inflated $$$. On the other hand if I pay tithing on interest, shouldn't I be able to deduct the effects of inflation since inflation is an expense or loss of sorts? Now if inflation is 10%, I might not have to pay any tithing on interest. But inflation is > 10%, could I get a return check for my loss? No? Then why do I pay tithing on the good years? Wouldn't it make more sense for me to keep it all and then pay a lump sum of tithing upon my death (done through a will)? Wouldn't that be full tithing?

I wonder what my bishop would think . . .

[_wenglund]

Staying out of debt is a good start, but hardly sufficient. You really need to be putting some money into savings or you'll have even more trouble down the road.

I hear 10% is a decent number although 15% would probably be better.

If you're in your 20's, 10% is enough. If you're in your 30's, 15% should be good. A rough goal to shoot for is to have 2x your salary saved by the time you're 40. For example, if you're making $100k, you should have saved $200k by the time you're 40 years old. At that point, the yearly earnings (compounded) will give you a pretty decent retirement.

Man, if only Mormons were as good at saving as they were at paying tithing...

The tithing issue is the thing I think is one of (if not the) most harmful teachings in the church. When I think about tithing, I feel that there could never be enough atheist evangelicalism. Talk about a massive abuse of the faith con.

That money should be invested in a person's self, because I can guarantee you that god isn't going to swoop down and rescue you when you retire.

This is one of those "why are religious people so dumb" issues. It should just be common sense.

The same so-called "common sense argument" could be made for secular taxes.

Unfortunately, this "argument" ignorantly fails to consider the exponential value to self in giving (particularly charitably) to improving the conditions of others. For example, even though I have no children, my property is assessed to pay for other people's children's education. By educating those children, rather than selfishly hording the money for myself, those children will be better positioned to get better paying jobs, which in turn will not only increase the tax base (thus lessening the tax load on me personally) as well as improve the economy (adding to the consumer pool, thus not only generating more people to purchase homes in my housing developments, but increasing demand for housing in my area, which in turn drives land and housing prices up, thereby increasing my profit potential--just to mention one of a multitude of other ways I, personally, may be benefitted by giving to educate other people's children).

This same symbionic principle applies to paying tithing (at least to the religiously minded), not to mention the elevating satisfaction and joy one may derive from helping to make others happy.

Think of it as the difference in philosophy between Mr. Potter's Building and Loan (which represents your selfish so-called "common sense" way of thinking) and Bailey Building and Loan (which represents the so-called "dumb" thinking of the more charitably minded) in the movie, It's a Wondrful Life.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

If one understands the notion of "exponentials" (as driven home by the youtube videos you pointed us to in the Global Warming thread) the younger one starts saving the better. If a 20-year-old is able to invest a lump sum of $20,000.00 at an average annual rate of return of 7%, by the time he or she reaches 70-years-old, that $20,000 would be worth $640,000.00.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Don't forget about inflation! That $640k (although I came up with $590k) will be worth less than $200k in today's dollars.

I didn't forget. I just didn't think it relevant to my point since inflation will be a factor whether one invest one's money for retirement or not. Think of where the 20-year-old would be were he or she not to invest any money for retirement.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Who Knows]

Don't forget about inflation! That $640k (although I came up with $590k) will be worth less than $200k in today's dollars.

How high is infaltion anyhow? Also, doesn't the market make about 9% APR if you invest long-term?

I've sometimes wondered how inflation plays into tithing. On the one hand it might be seen as me gypping the Lord if I pay tithing with inflated $$$. On the other hand if I pay tithing on interest, shouldn't I be able to deduct the effects of inflation since inflation is an expense or loss of sorts? Now if inflation is 10%, I might not have to pay any tithing on interest. But inflation is > 10%, could I get a return check for my loss? No? Then why do I pay tithing on the good years? Wouldn't it make more sense for me to keep it all and then pay a lump sum of tithing upon my death (done through a will)? Wouldn't that be full tithing?

I wonder what my bishop would think . . .

You make a good point. If you have $1 million sitting in an account earning 10% a year, but inflation is 10% a year, you should not be paying any tithing (you have effectively had zero increase).

I've wondered the same thing about people who pay tithing based on the earnings of their businesses. Let's say your business earns $100k a year, so you pay $10k a year in tithing. Then you have a horrible year, and lose $100k - what do you do about tithing? You're not going to get a rebate. Do you carry that loss over into future years?

[_Who Knows]

How high is infaltion anyhow? Also, doesn't the market make about 9% APR if you invest long-term?

Historically, inflation has been around 3%.

And yes, 9% is a good number to use for the long term.