Does the priesthood work on incurable diseases?

Post by **_The Nehor** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:24 am

Mercury wrote:Silly Mormon, wishful thinking is for kids!

I think of it as obeying the injuction to be like a little child......plus I'm happy.

Post by **_Mercury** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:51 am

Gazelam wrote:In the talk below is a testimony given of the dead being raised. This was around 1950 or so, if I'm not mistaken.

Matthew Cowley, Miracles
http://speeches.BYU.edu/?act=browse&speaker=Cowley%2C+Matthew&topic=&type=&year=&x=13&y=6

And here is a more comical, more likely fairy tale concerning the raising of the dead:

Post by **_Mercury** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:00 am

The Nehor wrote:
Mercury wrote:Silly Mormon, wishful thinking is for kids!

I think of it as obeying the injuction to be like a little child......plus I'm happy.

We can throw away the "be like little children". that's just silly. If I wanted to be like a little child I think I would draw spaceships and transformers all day followed by long 8 bit Nintendo sessions.

And if you are happy, then lets go down and get you some smack because Damn, if you want to be truly happy a good rush from a needle full of junk will get you blissing much better than the endorphin rush you have tricked your brain into producing for you during a spiritual experience.

Tell me, would you call this hapiness a continual state of happiness or do you kind of crash on it every one in a while and get extremely despaired at not living up to your creators expectations?

Post by **_The Nehor** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:18 am

Mercury wrote:We can throw away the "be like little children". that's just silly. If I wanted to be like a little child I think I would draw spaceships and transformers all day followed by long 8 bit Nintendo sessions.

And if you are happy, then lets go down and get you some smack because Damn, if you want to be truly happy a good rush from a needle full of junk will get you blissing much better than the endorphin rush you have tricked your brain into producing for you during a spiritual experience.

Tell me, would you call this hapiness a continual state of happiness or do you kind of crash on it every one in a while and get extremely despaired at not living up to your creators expectations?

Failing to see problem with doodling, I still do it. 8-bit Nintendo, not as much but I do have an emulator. Of course if your idea of being an adult is using drugs to recapture the joys of youth because you're too screwed up to be happy in your right mind....I was gonna say that's okay, but actually it sounds like it might suck.

Problem with the needle is I live in what was the drug capital of the State a few decades back and seen the fun-filled human fallout of it all. Then I remember the guy on my Mission who was introduced to the Gospel when he showed up in the parking lot to steal stereos. He looked at the building and decided his life wasn't going so well and came on in. His thoughts: "I get the same high without the drawbacks and only have to spend 10% of my income on it as opposed to almost all of it."

No, I don't despair much. I know I don't meet my creator's expectations. Most of the stress and despair in the LDS Church comes from people thinking they can. I gave up earning my way to heaven. I just do what I can, repent, and forgive and toss the pain and suffering to Christ and have a happy life.

Post by **_Black Moclips** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:27 pm

We had a guy in our ward die from cancer last year, and it was very sad. He had a family with 5 kids all under the age of 11. He received multiple blessings and was blessed that he would be healed. He went up and down for a while and he then passed away. A couple months later, one of his kids bore her testimony in church about how they knew the church was true. She mentioned that she knew the blessing had come true that he would be healed because he is in heaven now and free of the disease.

Now, I really feel bad for the family, and if believing the way they do helps comfort them in their intense grief, I'm not gonna judge. But what it does demonstrate is that the church sets up and encourages a belief system where God and the priesthood are never wrong and can never be objectively tried and tested. If person is blessed to be healed and is healed = miracle. The person is blessed to be healed but dies = mental and spiritual gymnastics to find some loop hole or semantic in the blessing (ie-the blessing stated "healed" but did not say "in this life") where the believer can still maintain belief.

Anyway, like I said, I feel very sad for the family. I am sorry they had their hopes of a healing dashed.

Post by **_Who Knows** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:48 pm

Black Moclips wrote:...but did not say "in this life"...

That's a classic also used for patriarchal blessings that don't come true.

Post by **_barrelomonkeys** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:55 pm

This thread is rather startling to me.

Do TBMs or anyone else that has faith in a personal God think it is healthy to believe that God, blessings, or what not can heal people?

Post by **_Black Moclips** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:17 pm

Personally, I have always been very tentative in giving blessings to the sick. I've never had any voice, direction or feeling telling me what to say. I've tried and tried to feel or hear something, but NADA. Even at the height of my spiritual state on my mission, nothing. So I gave up trying to induce some sort of experience. Now I basically give a general blessing and then end it with the catch "all according to your faith" so if something doesn't happen like they want it, not my fault. The will automatically assume it was their lack of faith. (Sad, very sad, I know. Just being honest though) Luckily, I have never been put into a life/death/incurable disease situation. I think I would be on the first flight to China if I was asked to do one of those. All of the blessings I've had to do have been normal sickness/pre-routine surgery type blessings, and guess what? The person gets better! It's a win-win for everyone in those situations. You have medical expertise involved to actually heal the person and the member gets to feel they had a miracle or the blessing worked.

Post by **_asbestosman** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:12 pm

The Nehor wrote:8-bit Nintendo, not as much but I do have an emulator.

Me too. I keep one on my pocket-pc so I can replay some of my old favorites like Megaman, Castlevania, Metroid, and Zelda.

And then there's the 16 bit games : Final Fantasy 2 & 3, Chrono Trigger, and Secret of Mana.

Post by **_asbestosman** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:16 pm

barrelomonkeys wrote:Do TBMs or anyone else that has faith in a personal God think it is healthy to believe that God, blessings, or what not can heal people?

Why would it not be healthy? I don't think blessings obviate the need for competent, professional medical care. In fact, even if God didn't exist, then belief that blessings help would likely tend to be beneficial to the ones receiving them. Belief itself seems to greatly aid in fighting illness. It won't bring back severed limbs, but it can help one fight germs and otherwise heal.