Let's talk Asherah, Daniel

[_Daniel Peterson]

I don't know that the LDS church teaches that. I understand the background behind it, but I don't think the church knows a lot about it.

As a matter of fact, we don't teach much about it, and we don't know much about it. I understand the background behind your jibe, but I think President Hinckley was right.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but ... it is my understanding that the greatest exaltation that can occur in Mormonism is to achieve Godhood, and be able to have your own universe. Part of that is being able to populate that universe through the multiple sealings that were done on earth. In other words, there has to be a Heavenly Father AND a Heavenly Mother, or, as it seems more likely to me, many Heavenly Mothers.

The Godhood part is completely correct and official; the "own universe" part is more speculative. And, yes, I think the logic is plain that there has to be a Heavenly Mother as well as a Heavenly Father.

If most of the relevant text were suppressed, that assumes an agenda by the people doing the suppressing.

I think that's likely, and would point to the so-called "Deuteronomistic reformers" as the people who probably carried out the revisions and gave us the text of the Hebrew Bible as we have it today.

Do you mean the texts existed, but were destroyed?

That's an unprovable possibility.

Was there some sort of political agenda to suppressing this information?

Yes, I think so.

Did the ancient Levantines (whoever they were) worship her as a goddess or just acknowledge that she existed?

The evidence seems to indicate that she may have been worshiped.

Incidentally, "the Levant" is essentially today's Lebanon, Syria, Israel, and Jordan.

Were the men in power intimidated by the idea of a Heavenly Mother/goddess?

Possibly. I think other, more honorable motives may have been even more significant, though. For example, worship of Asherah seems to have led to fertility cults, ritual immorality, and the like. It needn't have, you might say, but it always did.

I apologize in advance that I'm going to be out essentially all day long. I call your attention to the substantial essay that I've published on this subject:

“Nephi and His Asherah: A Note on 1 Nephi 11:8-23.” In Mormons, Scripture, and the Ancient World: Studies in Honor of John L. Sorenson, edited by Davis Bitton (Provo: Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies, 1998), 191-243.

A much condensed (and, therefore, to me, much less satisfactory) version of the above article is available on line as “Nephi and His Asherah” in Journal of Book of Mormon Studies 9/2 (2000): 15-25, 80-81.

[_CaliforniaKid]

So Asherah is supposedly Heavenly Mother?

Possibly. We're talking about the pretty dim reaches of early Levantine history, so it's hard to be definitive. And most of the relevant texts, if they ever existed, have probably been suppressed. She was likely edited out of the biblical canon, for example.

Or is that connection too strong? Like... maybe the ancient Hebrews thought she was God's concubine?

I'm unaware of anything to suggest that she was thought of as merely a concubine.

I seem to recall something in Canaanite mythology about how Asherah and a couple other (human) chicks were lounging by the seaside when El saw them and couldn't help himself... am I remembering correctly?

[_beastie]

There's currently a MAD thread discussing this, and a poster named JasonH seems pretty knowledgeable on the subject, and is illustrating the weaknesses in using this in Mormon apologia.

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index. ... opic=27161

One example of his posts:

I didn't want to make a big deal of this but it was thrown in my face as though it were fact. Just trying to make the point that biblical scholarship does not support the notion that asherah was wife to a divine being named Elohim. As Barker stated, "she is always connected with Yahweh."

Yahweh = Jehovah = Jesus.

So Jesus is married to the "Queen of Heaven," which we all know to be his mother in Mormon doctrine.

Obviously, this does not resonate well with Mormon doctrine, but one wouldn't realize then when reading materials from the apologetic vanguard. To say the least, they can be "sloppy" at times, just as you said.

[_Jersey Girl]

Latter-day Saints believe that part of the exaltation promised to the faithful in the hereafter is the continuation of family ties, and, specifically, of the marriage relationship.

Consistent with that, we believe that God himself has a consort.

The relatively recent recognition by archaeologists, epigraphers, and other scholars that many ancient Israelites (and ancient Semites more generally) believed that the Father God El (and/or his divine Son Yahweh) had a consort known as Asherah has caught the interest of alert Latter-day Saints.

More specifically, I published a lengthy article some years ago arguing that pre-exilic Asherah imagery (she was often associated with a tree) is present in Nephi's vision of the Tree of Life as it appears in 1 Nephi 11, in the Book of Mormon.

Thank you, Daniel. I'd like to know if you think the Old Testament supports or condemns Asherah as goddess. Feel free to use scripture ref's as you see fit.

Jersey Girl

[_Jersey Girl]

If you look up "Grove" in th etopical guide there are numerous references to having to tear down groves that were aprt of religious rites. People in ancient Israel began to worship the heavenly mother, the festivities included little cakes and wine if I'm not mistaken. I believe that is where the imagery of the tree of life as a connection to Asherah comes from.

Dan, is there some connection to the "Nut' goddess in egyptian culture to the groves of Asherah?

Also, is it just me, or do they mention Asherah in this song from "The Prince of Egypt" ? Comes in about the 2:21 mark when the kids start speaking in Hebrew.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpK8WdCsYzk

Which Asherah are you thinking of here, Gaz?

[_Jersey Girl]

Daniel

Possibly. We're talking about the pretty dim reaches of early Levantine history, so it's hard to be definitive. And most of the relevant texts, if they ever existed, have probably been suppressed. She was likely edited out of the biblical canon, for example.

Daniel, are you asserting that Asherah isn't mentioned in the cannon?

[_Jersey Girl]

CK

I seem to recall something in Canaanite mythology about how Asherah and a couple other (human) chicks were lounging by the seaside when El saw them and couldn't help himself... am I remembering correctly?

CK, there are many Asherah related myths to draw from. One has El seeing the group of human chicks and giving them the choice of whether or not to be his sisters or his wives.

Well, it that's not founded in reality, I don't know what is.

Jersey Girl

[_Jersey Girl]

beastie

There's currently a MAD thread discussing this, and a poster named JasonH seems pretty knowledgeable on the subject, and is illustrating the weaknesses in using this in Mormon apologia.

Yes, I posted on that thread which is why I started one here. I think Daniel is more likely to engage in serious discussion on this topic than some others are over there.

[_Gazelam]

Which Asherah are you thinking of here, Gaz?

I was unaware there were multiple Asherahs, but then again I'm only aquainted with the topic, I haven't done any deep study on it.

Dan

Thanks for the translation of the Prince of Egypt song ! Ever since I heard it I thought it odd that they kept mentioning Asherah. Now I know I was wrong.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Thank you, Daniel. I'd like to know if you think the Old Testament supports or condemns Asherah as goddess. Feel free to use scripture ref's as you see fit.

I think the Hebrew Bible as we have it tries to hide Asherah, and is mostly negative.

Daniel, are you asserting that Asherah isn't mentioned in the cannon?

I believe that her presence in the canon has been obscured, but not altogether eliminated.

My position should be fairly clear from my paper on the subject, which, I've just discovered, is available on line:

http://farms.BYU.edu/publications/books ... &chapid=94